Heartgard Chewable Without A Prescription

Farah, I add my voice to yours. Let’s try to help people in Gaza without sacrificing the sense of safety we have in this country.

Farah,

I am a vicious supporter to annulling the treaty, i am not driven by emotions nor i am a hypocriate that claim i want the country to go into war while i will run away once it does as your claiming.

So, your same disclaimer of asking people to not accuse you being against the palestanian cause should prevent you from calling those who support ending the treaty judgmental labels of emotional based decions or hate for life.

secondly, i really urge you to go and search for the treaty text, for the treaty appendices and do a small research for what has been done through these 15 years since the treaty become effective to realize why we jordanian youth are gathering against the treaty and calling for annuling it now and for once.

Just few remarks on the treaty and why ending it is a major necessity to protect over sovergnity over our land.

1. The treaty consists of 6 main principles, three of which aims directly to enrich and strengthen the co-relation between the Jordanian state and the Israeli state. these principles have the highest priority over any already signed or to be signed treaties between Jordan and any other entity in the world.
— > Meaning, our decision making in our country is not done to the best of our country but for the best of the treaty and israel benefits in it. which is a critical threat that effects every internal and external stand we might have to take. which should be a reason for you to refuse that our country soverignty is hocked down to the benefits of a country like Israel

2. After the borders was drawn by this treaty, four areas of land where found to be Jordanian lands under the israeli occupation. these lands includes Al baqoura, wadi Araba, el 3′amer farm and beaches on the dead sea. what happened to these lands?
Answer: al baqoura is rented for 25 years with automatic renewal right to isrealis where they have full access on the area and where you the jordanain need a reason to get into your country land. el 3′amer farm is the same case.
Wadi araba, is rented to israel for 99 years and some negotiators refuse this and say its 25 years with the same conditions above. the lands on the dead sea beaches are under israeli rule not jordanian rules because they have a cirtical location to israel location.

3. Check the water appendix on the treaty and check how we dont get our proclaimed share of the water entitled to us by the water. while you are at it, check the Tabaria lake case waster where israel gave jordan polluted water.

4. Check the Jordanian prisoners case at Israel, how it took us by this unfair treaty 14 years to get 5 prisoners back to be imprisoned in jordanian prisons and why we still have jordanian prisoners there.

5. Econmically, please go invistegate the downsides of the treaty that forced jordan to go for the QIZ agreements and plans that after 8 years of being affective are nothing but total failure and threat to jordan economic state.

Finally, i really want to stress that these reasons are nothing compared to very other various reasons related to agriculture, more on sovereignty and the main illegal law related issue questioned about the correctness of the treaty to begin with.

what is also worth mentioning, its good to tell you that all these demonstrations, donations campagins are actually against the treaty and israel can come now and question the jordanian government allowance for all whats going on in jordan because its against its state.

the question you should ask your self is, why are you supporting a treaty that is only harming our country and a treaty that we are not getting our share of rights from isreali’s through it and against the masses of people wants and desires.

if your answer is because we are weak and we cant go into war, you should be asking at least for two things: improving the state of jordan to become a stronger country and 2. to demand at least altering the treaty to the best of jordan.

Thank you.

Lila I totally agree, and I am very glad that you put it all into words. This treaty is against us, especially in terms of water (a US study has recently adviced the government to raise the water prices, instead we should consider getting our water back from the zionists across the border).

Let me make things clearer Farah, if i own a house of five rooms and you came with your whole family with weapons and everything that makes me a very weak person before you, and you said you’ll let me live in peace if i gave you two rooms, hell i won’t give them to you. I’d rather fight and lose than giving you what i own to live in the so-called “peace”. Not to mention that if i kept playing the weak one, you might and you will ask for more.

Strength is what we have inside us, if you are a surrendring person then you are weaker than you can even imagine, and if you read the history you’ll find millions of examples where weak people won wars against stronger and more powerful people just because they belive, and a very recent example is Lebanon, whose southern areas where occupied from the year 1982 till 2000, and who fought there? A small powerless (comparing to Israel)resistance.

One last thing to note, i can’t see those countries, with no sgined treaties with Isreal, living in war, consider Syria and all the other countries. We should be stronger than that, much stronger than that. Else, we’ll always be the weak ones, which we really aren’t.

if there was any light at the end of the tunnel, it was the jordanian-israeli treaty…

but lets face it.. israel fights hamas in gaza, and the jordanian government is opposed by the muslim brotherhood which is the mother of hamas… they operate kindergartens, schools, universities, and have a majority vote in the parliament…

My message to arabs is stop dwindling into the dark ages, rise up and educate yourselves into the 21 century…

Laila,

You claim that you are willing to go into war with Israel.

Israel is one of the unofficial nuclear armed states, along with India and Pakistan.

Clearly, the United Nations and the United States did not make a big fuss about their nuclear weapons, as they did with North Korea and Iran, which are considered “dangerous-looking” countries. The United States stated that the security of the state of Israel is a priority in their foreign policy.

Given the above, are you still willing to go into war with Israel, and annul the treaty that gave Jordan the chance to prosper (forget about our government that hates to see us prosper anyway)? I doubt it. Israel has the strength to wipe out any Arab country. The reason it is not doing so, is that it does not want to waste its time while the situation is their own land is not stable yet

– [the treaty] is what’s preventing the Israelis from starting a war with us.

WRONG! Jordan was always meant to be a recpeticale for expelled Palestinians. It’s sort of like Gaza. israel never wanted Jordan or Gaza. To them, it’s one big blob of human misery, a vast refugee camps of expelled Palestinians in the 1948 and 67 wars. Jordan to them is the same. No reason to invade. No oil, no water, no natural resources of significance, millions of refugees….let me repeat…millions of refugees. Why in the world would Israel want to occupy a land that’s full of expelled Palestinians. So please, if you want to make a case for preserving the treaty, make a better, more rational one. All Israel needs from the Jordanian regime is a safe border where resistance elements cannot enter into Israel. Thats’ why Israel never invaded Syria since 1967. Only reason Syria suffers periodic Israeli air raids and assassinations is because it opted to support the resistance. So long as the Jordanian regime keeps crushing the resistance, Israel is happy not to invade. peace or not. Let someone else do the dirty work. Sort of like what Egyptian regime is doing now. (I feel sorry for Egyptians. they deserve better. )

– I don’t understand those who want to go into “war” and start a “jihad” against the Israelis.

That’s another logical fallacy. You invent an argument then you try to argue against it. the majority of Jordanians don’t want war with Israel. They want a cease fire but not a peace treaty. A no-war-no-peace is what’s desirable. but to pretend that nothing has happened between us and the Israelis when Israel refuses to even discuss the right of return, leaving Jordanians and expelled Palestinians to suffer mightily because peace did not bring justice. What sort of pressure tools do you have if you can’t at the least diplomatic pressure to express your dissatisfaction with Israel’s indifference to Jordan’s plight. Write a strongly worded statement? DUH!

– The reason Jordan has remained quite a safe country

Now you are making me laugh. there is a MAJOR difference between safety and repression. Please stop using misleading terms. If Jordan is safe, so was Stalinist Russian. Except that Russia came out a super power after its wars with the Nazis. our regime turned us into sidekicks to every super and minor power.

– It’s because we’ve accepted the presence of the Jewish nation as a fact and let’s face it

No we did not. again, stop putting words in our mouths. You accepted. The regime accepted it. A rigged Parliament with a rigged election accepted it. Do a referendum today on the peace treaty on on the presence of a racially driven state next to us and you will find the overwhelming majority of Jordanians are against it inasmuch as every decent self-respecting human being was against Apartheid South Africa and White Rhodesia. There is a difference between accepting and being forced to deal with a racist colonialist Israel.

And how in the world do you accept to live next to a state that pisses allover Arabs. Have you no dignity? What sort of peace treaty creates a national security threat for one country, Jordan, while reliving another, Israel, from its ethical and legal responsibility? I am talking about the Palestinian refugees. Fact is, any peace treaty that does not abide by international laws is null and void. Do you think the world would have honored a peace treaty between Whites and neighboring Black African countries whereby they are obliged to take in expelled South African Blacks or suffer an invasion form White South Africa?

And how do you accept to be the only ethnic group on earth whereby international laws do not apply to you? Do you think Arabs are subhuman?

http://www.cicr.org/ihl.nsf/WebART/380-600056?OpenDocument

” Nevertheless, the Occupying Power may undertake total or partial evacuation of a given area if the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand. Such evacuations may not involve the displacement of protected persons outside the bounds of the occupied territory except when for material reasons it is impossible to avoid such displacement. Persons thus evacuated shall be transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased.”

Now you are telling us there is a peace treaty between Jordan and Israel. And we know there is a peace treaty between PNA and Israel. How come years after the “peace” treaty, non of the refugees are allowed to return to their homes? If you don’t consider yourself a human being equal to a jewish person in rights, that’s YOUR problem. but the rest of us will NOT accept for Arabs to be the only race on earth since WWII who can be evicted from their lands for the benefit of another race and then we are asked to accept this dilution of our human rights in return for a promise not to wage war on us by a racist violent entity called Israel.

I respect your right to your opinion, now you have heard mine so I hope you will respect it.

(edited for language)

Maha, while all opinions, in all their diversity, are resepected in 7iber, we emphasize the need to show one another some respect as well. Everyone has a point of view and disagreements are abound. Voicing yours does not require any offensive language.

Thank you

Great analysis Laila. Wanna hear some depressing info on the so called Peace Zones or Qualified Industrial Zones in Jordan. Here is something that will make you throw up. Many of the Israeli sweat shops in the QIZ were once operating in Israel employing 1948 Palestinians (now living in Israel), who were nominally protected by Israeli labor laws. To avoid these laws and to avoid the Israeli minimum wage, shop owners moved them into Jordan. Guess who works in most of Israeli shops at the QIZ, especially the notorious ones where reports of abuse and permanent work inures come from? Overwhelmingly Palestinians from the refugee camps in Jordan. The perverse irony just screams at you.

Farah, it’s rather hypocritical of you to say that you are for the peace treaty with Israel because it’s good for jordan while you express concern in a previous blog post (see link below) over US plans to turn Jordan into a Palestine.

Since the Jordanian regime signed a peace treaty with Israel that does not ensure the repatriation of the Palestinian refugees, one wonders if this regime was working for Jordan’s interest or Israel’s interest.

I am deeply troubled by the lack of vision and loss of coherence by the so called pro-peace camp in Jordan. Most claim to have Jordan’s interest in mind when defending peace with Israel, yet most know that the peace treaty destabilizes Jordan in the long run because the Jordanian regime agreed to liquidate it’s claim to the 4th Geneva Convention.

All in all, the pro Israel Peace treaty camp in Jordan suffers from delusion of intelligence and patriotism, but beneath this veneer of shallow pacifist talk, so much short sighted thinking and mostly self-serving agendas shape the momentum for the peace treaty with Israel.

Jordan’s so called peace intelligentsia is so thoroughly penetrated and manipulated by both American and Israeli money. that’s the painful truth.

http://jordanian-observations.blogspot.com/2008/06/mccain-to-declare-jordan-as-new_16.html

Farah,

I have mixed feelings about your article and the comments that were written consequently.

Perhaps there is some truth in what you said (although I disagree with most of it) .. but could you have held on to your thoughts at least till the war is over? it is bad timing now to start saying that we’re weak and helpless at this time in history.

As Israeli troops are entering Gaza, people there don’t only need us to let the people around the world know about their story and not only need our donations but more than anything else, they need our TRUE FAITH in them and in ourselves.

Apparently, you’re the one who’s hitting her own self-destruct button .. one can only hope that it won’t be contagious.

Farah, you are completely right. Nobody can gain anything without recognizing some facts: there is a jewish state and people have been living there for some generations, whether you like it or no. There must be a Palestinian state, although most (?) Israelis don’t like it. Both have to live with their neighbours, and the neighbours with them, even with clenched teeth. How many more wars and how many more deaths do your critics want to see?

Hamas is responsible of war crimes putting its civilian palestinian at risk
using them as humain shield.That is how the IslamoNazis of today
is exploiting the palestinian people
“Hamas leaders are hiding and they are leaving you on the front line,” says a voice in accented Arabic from gaza city
“Hamas has misled you and abandoned you,” a man’s voice said in Arabic. “If you call any leader of Hamas, nobody will answer.”

Hamas must be running out of shields (women and children) over there in Gaza, so now they’re just plain running.
The positive sign is that Hamas is not only hiding from the Israelis, but now from Gazans who well know who brought the hell that’s now raining down on them.

Nayif,

where did i state my willingness to go into war now? you must be aware that when people masses call for a treaty annulment the constitutional way there is a very specific process that starts by the parliament quest, series of discussion of the how and when debate and then study the after math and the preparation for such a quest.

So, lets just skip all the talk about we cant now, we are a weak country argument because Jordanians in streets or protesting or representatives are demanding this as a strategic option that just considering it seriously by the government NOW makes a very valid and effective political tool for our country benefit and for the best of gaza under attack now.

Its essential to realize that all public and official demands is aware that for us to have a government that i s willing to take this step about the treaty this also mean that our government should be ready to face the consequences of these steps.

now for the serious comments:
1. This treaty is against jordan chance to prosper, how can a country that has its decision making cycle tied down to the benefits of the evil country of israel that you are afraid to fight has a chance to proser the right way it should? you refuse fighting or starting a war with bad anti-law country like israel yet you accept – and hail the benefits of-to tie down our existence decisions, politically, economically, on agriculture, on communications and the whole infrastructure to this same evil country that works for nothing but its own benefits and jordan is nothing but one of its tools and targets.

please explain that to me, explain how can you tie our country sovereignty to the country that can wipe us from the face of earth and more over consider this a chance to prosperity?

2. whats up with being that scared of israel endless power? humanity reached a point to fight every static concept of endless power or ultimate certainty and one of these taboos to break is israel endless power. so seriously lets stop this illusion that fuels our own helplessness just because you are not willing to make our country stronger and Israel strength is your best reason to blame our failure on it.

I didn’t read the whole comments but I ask the question: Why giving up any piece of Palestine? I am not talking about the 67 borders but also the 48, cause even if we got the 67 borders I won’t get back my grandfather’s house. And god…what a beautiful country Palestine is, the Whole Palestine. Then after we take back our country we will let the Jews live in peace with us under a Palestinian state. And we know how to live in Peace with others, we did that before. A two state solution were not implemented, Israel were controlling Palestine and it’s people with power for the past 60 years. Why not, and after the 60 years we switch, let the Palestinians rule for 60 years!!!

Your entry is a breath of fresh air, so I’ll start by saying kudos for having the aplomb to put it out there.

I wish people would think with their heads for once. Here are some FACTS:
1. Israel is real! And it isn’t going anywhere. They have vastly superior military prowess and they even outnumber the Palestinians in Israel/Palestine. Oh yeah they also have a strong economy and the backing of the west. So even if the Arabs/Muslims do miraculously unite, they will still come up short against Israel. Which brings me to:
2. They have the upper hand. No matter how much you try to deny it, this fact won’t change. So we are in no position to ask for better or equal rights in the treaty, just be thankful to whatever deity you pray to that they agreed to these conditions.

Luckily our government isn’t as shortsighted as most of the people. Annulling the treaty would by a horrible step in the wrong direction. The ONLY hope for Palestinians is to overthrow Hamas (officially a terrorist organization, but that is a discussion for another time), and hold peace talks with Israel.

*Cue angry, irrational, emotional, ignorance fueled replies*

I won´t write much but i would like to address the human rights.I don´t believe there´s something called that way,Gaza just suffered another mean,brutal strike.My console goes to all the families,all the people of Palestine.There´s no human rights because someone responsable for those shameful acts and should be condemned right away.

I won´t write much but i would like to address the human rights.I don´t believe there´s something called that way,Gaza just suffered another mean,brutal strike.My console goes to all the families,all the people of Palestine.There´s no human rights because someone responsable for those shameful acts and should be condemned right away.

“The ONLY hope for Palestinians is to overthrow Hamas (officially a terrorist organization, but that is a discussion for another time), and hold peace talks with Israel.”

Ahmad – This response will be as calm, rational, and unemotional as can be.

In short, economically, the treaty is a disaster for Jordan. Politically, it allows Jordan to survive. Jordan agreed to these terms because the US promised aid in exchange. Just as Egypt agreed during Camp David. Building a just peace will require things other than military and economic power – it requires cooperation.

Your definition of terrorist must come from the United States Department of State. Here are a few facts to consider when deciding who is the terrorist(cue DAM’s meen erhabi):
Context
* Israeli government has been starving Gaza. Since 2006, the humanitarian situation of Gaza has been declining drastically due to the Israeli closure and siege of the area. According to the UN:
o 56 percent of Gazans are classified as ‘food insecure’
o 76 percent of Gazan households are must accept some humanitarian assistance
o At least 60 percent of Gazans in poverty rate by international standards
+ See the U.N. report here
* Israel’s arsenal of more than 200 F-16s is second only to the U.S.
o From 2001-2005 alone, Israel received $10.5 billion in Foreign Military Financing in addition to
$6.3 billion U.S. arms deliveries
o Most notably, Israel bought 102 Lockheed Martin F-16s ($4.5 billion deal) in 2006
+ See the full report here at the World Policy Institute
* The Gaza Strip is one of the most densely populated places on earth
o 1.5 million Palestinians
o 139 square miles (360 sq km)
o 25 mi long and 4-7.5 mi wide
* Israeli government (ultimately) controls all borders and seacoast of Gaza

It is obvious you haven’t read Said’s End of the Peace process. There was much more to the peace agreements that the media mentions.

Of course living conditions have worsened under Hamas, Israel has blocked all food and supplies into the Strip. Convenient.

I’ll never defend violence against civilians, whether it is the 4 Israelis killed or the 450 Palestinians killed in the last 5 days, but I hope that you can consider the context of the conflict, and not just repeat what you heard on CNN.

I’ve been going through the different messages here. I am not palestinan nor jordanian just someone living in Europe who always supported the palestinian rights as I will support any human rights.

The unbelievable things is talking about this treaty or whatsoever so-called political commitment with Israel to live in peace (I call it quite a passive attitude) Palestinians should first be freed from this occupation.

Resistance comes from unity of one people and the support of those who believe in human values and decency of life not only for ourselves but those deprived of that.

If we all still to think we are too weak to do anything then nothing will happen. Oppression gives this faith to those who suffers to continue their fight.

If if was not the case countries that were under colonial empires will still be ruled by those today. But they had this faith that their resistance what more then the need to eat or drink and their own life. They struggled for their freedom at any price and so the Palestians people have been struggling for so far to give a better future to their generations.

So please don’t use this Hamas or treaty issue to advocate why nothing should be done as indicated by Farah.

Let people influence their government so things can move for the sake of Palestinians.

Ramsey, thank you for the civil answer.
Your reply is based on 2 presumptuous assumptions, 1. That I consider Hamas a terrorist organization 2. That I consider Israel the good guys.

So let me clarify, both are nefarious imo, Israel more so because they have more capabilities. Sadly, Israel is too strong for the Palestinians, and as I said before, it isn’t going anywhere.
“One Man’s Terrorist is Another Man’s Freedom Fighter”
I am aware of the adage, but what has Hamas done for the Palestinians? They brought this slaughter on the Palestinians, and it will continue as long as they are at the helm. Almost 500 people died because Hamas want’s to throw amateurish harmless missiles. 500 people that could have been living right now if Hamas wasn’t in charge. More Palestinians will die if peace with Israel is not achieved, and unlike Hamas I’m not okay with that.

You say: “Of course living conditions have worsened under Hamas, Israel has blocked all food and supplies into the Strip. Convenient.”
The most logical solution is to remove Hamas from office, thus improving the living conditions.

Kamo: Your comparison is wrong, things have changed, Israel can wipe Gaza (and the Arabs) with one button. The sooner you realize that the better.

Farah

“I like the fact that I live in a safe, secure country, where I can go about my daily life without fear of having my house brought down over my head.”

Lucky you, I should send this messgae to Gaza tonight.

“There are other ways we can fight this war, and sacrificing this country is not one of them. We’ve done that once before and lost.”

Please don’t turn this into an argument between Palestinians and Jordanians. We are all one, our cause is one. When Palestine cry We all cry!

7iber,
I can’t believe you posted this article at this time? You could have posted an article to call for the support and prayers that Gaza needs.

What you guys are saying: Let Gaza fight Israel and we will send them milk.

And the question is: Do we live in dignity while our lands are stolen and people are killed? God NO…

OK Farah,,,On the other hand,what this shameful “peace” treaty has achieved to common good of the people of Jordan,the answer is nothing but alienation and condemnation of “Our” government from all over the Arab World
Overwhelming Majority of Palestinians inside Palestine and in the diaspora are calling on us to cut off this shameful relation ,if the people of Gaza who are under the relentless horror military campaign are urging us to cut off this shameful relation,why are you for it if the people of Palestine are asking us to end this relation and also overwhelming majority of Jordanian also want to see and end to this relation which only brought us nothing what so ever
Let us take the example of racist white south African regime which Israeli is carbon copy of that regime , and when South African enjoyed good relations with the neighboring countries ,the government of whit Afrikaans didn’t pay attention or taken the advise to end it’s apartheid policy till All African countries especially the neighboring countries that supported boycott, and only then,we began to see meaningful change toward achieving justice and peace .
Political and Economic boycott is the most cost effective to achieve justice and peace and history and experiences has provided that.

Farah, there is an underlying assumption in your blog that Israel will attack Jordan if the treaty is annulled. That is not necessarily true. There is no Palestinian armed resistance to Israeli occupation in Jordan. That resistance moved to Lebanon, then Tunis, then became part of the Palestinian Authority. Why should Israel attack then? Saudi Arabia has no treaty with Israel and it is not attacked, no?

Secondly, the Hashemites (the real people with whom Jordanians should annul their treaty) are long close allies with Israel. They are friendly to Israeli interests and will by no means allow groups threatening Israel to attack.

As long as the treaty is in tact, Jordanians will continue to support Israel by buying unlabeled goods sent into the country, selling land to Jewish groups at discount prices, being a low wage center for Israeli businesses, and so forth. Time to pressure the government to act in the interests of the majority of citizens. That of course will be the real threat to your safety as the Hashemites are the biggest threat to the security of Jordanians, who must endure their rule everyday.

Ahmed, Hamas didnt bring this attack on Palestinians by virtue of its presence at the helm or by launching missles. Israel had this attack planned six months ago, and actually escalated violence before this when Hamas stopped firing rockets (See Gush Shalom’s reporting of this).

Israel has been tormenting the people of Gaza since its inception, Hamas or no Hamas. militant resistance or not. This is part of Israel’s plan to make the Palestinians leave. The writing on the wall has been clear since Vladimir Jabotinsky published his infamous tract, “The Iron Wall,” the real Israeli “security doctrine”–a paper you should read if you want to understand the policies of the state of Israel.

Rami, dont spout your anti-Arab racism under the guise of civility. People, whether the Muslim brotherhood or westerners, have the right to oppose a bad government, such as the Hashemites. Is this right only reserved to people with white skin color and coming from Europe? When they do this, it is called democracy. When Arabs express opposition, in your terms, they live in the “dark ages”?

Actualy Israel doesn’t need to fight is, they’d rather send us all the Palestinias they have to Jordan and this country has always had close ties with Israel for the past 60 years, so who are we kidding here.

But I don’t call for cutting the ties for one reason. All the donations from this country, Syria, lebanon and others are going to Gaza thru the Hashemite Donations commitee, so cutting the ties will stop the aid from reaching Palestinians.

Lets play it smart

“All the donations from this country, Syria, lebanon and others are going to Gaza thru the Hashemite Donations commitee”

Ali, That’s somewhat inaccurate. the over 90% of humanitarian aid to Gaza still goes through UNRWA and United Palestinian Appeal and other international recognized organizations not blacklisted by Israel. The Hashimite Humanitarian donations are very minuscule in comparison. Not for the lack of compassion, but UNRWA and UPA have always had a vast network of donors.

You can send money to UNRWA and UPA and kick the Israeli ambassador at the same time.

So please don’t use the aid to Gaza as an excuse to justify keeping the Israeli embassy open.

suspeding economic and diplomatic relations doesn’t mean we’re going to war with them. It does however put more pressure on Israel to end it’s attack. of course if we do that, we risk losing US aid. That’s our biggest risk, not Israeli bombs.

“of course if we do that, we risk losing US aid.”

this aid of course is important to the regime since little of it makes it to Jordanians but the bulk of it goes to state security to protect israel’s borders and the regime and to keep the Palestinian refugees under tights control.

that’s the danger of not having a democracy. you have to constantly obey your masters instead of listening to your people. this is why Iran and Cuba and Venezuelan and other weaker South American countries can stand up to thugs and gangsters like the US, because these countries derive their strength form their people. That’s why Gazans can withstand the zionist onslaught. They have chosen the path of resistance by electing Hamas, when they realized the peace process became another strategic weapon for Israel against the palestinains and a mere source of income for Fatah thugs.

Emad:

I can’t believe you posted this article at this time? You could have posted an article to call for the support and prayers that Gaza needs…What you guys are saying: Let Gaza fight Israel and we will send them milk.

7iber is a non-partisan platform that allows for all voices to be heard in the Jordanian sphere, as they have a right to be. We don’t pick and choose posts. People submit content and we post it for them. It is that simple.

Ayda:

over 90% of humanitarian aid to Gaza still goes through UNRWA and United Palestinian Appeal and other international recognized organizations not blacklisted by Israel.

Actually, all donations in this part of the world go through Jordan. That is a fact. The Hashemite Charity Commission is the only body allowed to have convoys physically cross over the body. Once they do, there is indeed cooperation with UNRWA, but it is the commission that comes to them.

This is not in defense of the keeping the israeli ambassador here. I’m merely clarifying a few facts. If the border with Israel was closed, you (or rather Gazans) would quickly discover just how “minuscule” those donations really are.

Thanks

>>> The Hashemite Charity Commission is the only body allowed to have convoys physically cross over the body.

Ahhhmm! that makes the charity a conduit not a fund. there is a difference between providing logistics and providing the goods. Over 90%of the goods are UNRWA and UPA.

But whomever Israel selects as its trusted logistics partner is a security and PR decision and not a humanitarian one. nor should we reward it or turn it into some holy grail in defense of an unholy alliance between the Jordanian regime and Israel. I think this point has been explained above by Maha. It’s the Jordanian people that should be thanked.

And if Jordan stopped sending trucks, Egypt or some other third party will.

we should not leave it up to Israel to decide who is the good Arab and who is a bad Arab simply by letting one in with the tuna cans and shutting the other out.

Kudos to the Jordanian people and to their undeniable passion for supporting the Palestinians. I wish if I can hug each and every one of them.

>>> 7iber is a non-partisan platform that allows for all voices to be heard in the Jordanian sphere

Would you allow an article calling for the overthrow of the Egyptian or other Arab regimes? No you won’t. So please stop using this silly excuse. You chose articles you like and you exclude those you don’t like. And that’s fair. It’s your blog. but spare us the lame justifications.

“remember the….”
Kamo, it seems I’ve got a better memory than you. Remember Lucy somewhere in East Africa? Her descendants spread all over the world even to remote places like Jerusalem or New Zealand. If you put the holiness of any bit of soil above the holiness of human life, I’d better not comment that, because I don’t want to use indecent language. Got that?

“If you put the holiness of any bit of soil above the holiness of human life, I’d better not comment that”

Dorte: This is typical israeli doublespeak. Have your forgotten your own comment just few lines above about jewish state? When it suits youm God talks to you and promises you real state and we must accept that. when it does not, you are a secular person who speaks about human rights and human life. Is this unintentional or just a knee-jerk Zionist deception? Do you realize how hypocritical you come across when you say in your first post you say “there is a jewish state” and we have to accept it then you turn around and denounce those who “put the holiness of any bit of soil above the holiness of human life”…do you realize how freaky you sound when you tell in our face that we have to accept a Jewish state and then few lines later you denounce religion. When the world accepts a White state in South Africa, we will accept a Jewish state in our midst that was built on the misery of non-Jews. So long as there are refugee camps and millions of non-jewish refugees, Israel’s Jewishness will stand as a testimony to the vulgarity of the idea of Zionism. You may put the gun to our heads and force us to accept that for now. And we will because we are weak. but it’s a matter of time before we send you packing too. We will tolerate only a secular democracy for all It’s citizen, or get ready to get lost.

I am beside myself.
Bravo to Maha and Laila.

Being a jordanian born , and new york raised…I jumped on the chance when it came to visit jordan as an adult for the very first time since leaving as a 6 year old child.
On the journey to jordan, i couldnt help but constantly judge every single jordanian i came across.
I judged my fellow people as being enslaved mindless robots.
“How can these inbred people accept this way of life” i always told myself throughout my entire visit in jordan.

Back in New York, everyone who asked me about my trip, , ” tell me about jordan through your eyes” they would say….and I would say:

What a bunch of dumb enslaved mindless human beings. They never question anything told to them….they accept ” getting the shaft ” and they thank the person who gives them the shaft.

They accept the fact that they cant have their own identities. Everyone you see is a clone of the other….Its a marketer’s wet dream!

Their is no indivisual creativity amongst themselves. What ever is given to them, they gladly accept. To them, a prson of so called ” prestige” as such a doctor,pharmacist…can literally take advantage of anyone and get away with it…OUT IN THE OPEN!

They accept that their forced to spend their entire lives studying for a career to which they can never pursue. 35 years old, with a million degree’s, just to drive a cab…or sell fugoose.
No one I met in jordan was happy. NO ONE.
The youth are forced into homosexuality and lesbian relationships….the opposite sex cant trust each other out of fear of blackmail from some jackass with a cell phone camera..The adults think its okay to be treated like crap throughout any local or state governmental agency…and the old folks just cant wait to die, and blame their miserable lives on god.
” this is what god wants” they say. I told myself I would NEVER visit jordan EVER.
Basic laws are not enforced! Motorists do as they please. Cops are busy trying to get bribes…sexual favors from girls…AND guys…I HAVE NO WORDS TO DESCRIBE MY THOUGHTS ABOUT JORDAN…seeing it thropugh a new yorker’s point of view.

I really wanted to buy a condo…or land and build myself a summer home their in jordan, thinking it does the country good if us expatriots come back to our ” motherland” .. injecting entrprenuership creativity, contributing to jordan society but all i kept getting from jordan was ” were a dumb breed, we enjoy getting the shaft just as long as we have our cigerettes and coffee.
With all due respect to religion..RELIGION CANT FEED YOU.
The constant calls to prayer in jordan is rediculous. Why do the jordanians continue to allow these religious figures to abuse their clerical status for the continuing of mindless enslavemen. Peopl of religon dont need to be constantly harrassed by the clerics. The know whats right from wrong..and let them be, let them grow as a society.
Being labled ” the messeehi” really didnt faze me…until i startd getting spatted on while taking strolls in Irbed and the surrounding communities.

Laila and Maha, Well written, highly intellignt, simple yet powerful…and RAW REALITY.

I love it. Ill fight next to you both any day, for any cause that will free th jordan people.

Rami, I resent you describing those who resist colonialism as living in the dark ages and as Muslim fanatics. You seem to have forgotten that many of the anti-colonialist demonstrators in world capitals including the tens of thousands of demonstrators in London and Paris are mostly Christians not Muslims.

Furthermore, don’t you think the term “dark ages” applies to a people and a country, Israel, that they say was promised to them by their God? And did you forget that most Christian fundamentalist supporters of Israel believe that Israel must be victorious for the Messiah to arrive. And wasn’t it in the dark ages that kings burned and pillaged whole villages for the mistakes of few. Does Gaza and Lebanon and the Israeli bloody attack which left hundreds of murdered civilians because 4 or 5 jews were killed, doesn’t that remind you of any dark ages?

Think before you speak.

“[The treaty] is what’s preventing the Israelis from starting a war with us”.
Ok let’s ponder this statement for a moment. The last armed conflict between us and the Israelis was sometime in the 70’s (if I remember correctly), the treaty was signed in 1994, there is a 25 years gap, why didn’t they start a war with us during that time!? The treaty has nothing to do with stopping them from attacking us, face it. Probably what is stopping them from attacking us is that it’s financially unfeasible, or that everything they need from Jordan is secured by the treaty; security, water rations, etc …
“We are a country of 5 million”
Get the facts straight we’re 6,198,677 (Wikipedia) and Israel is 7,282,0002, so what’s your point!?
“We’ve done that once before and lost. We’d just be hitting the self-destruct button”
So if you failed from the first time you give up!!? So what we failed once! You learn from your mistakes, and you try again.
Let’s check a few battles in ancient and modern history:
a. Battle of Thermopylae
b. Battle of Marathon
c. Battle of Cannae
d. Battle of Austerlitz
e. D-Day
f. Al Karamah Battle
g. Al Samoo3 Battle
h. Al Yarmouk Battle
i. Al Qadisiyya Battle
You know what’s in common in all these battles!!? They’re share a fact that the victorious side was outnumbered and had lesser weapons. These are battles that shaped the world.
Numbers and Weapons are aiding factors but they do not win battles, courage and spirit do.
You make your own research and see how many smaller armies throughout history defeated stronger better equipped armies.
“I like the fact that I live in a safe, secure country, where I can go about my daily life without fear of having my house brought down over my head”
Are you happy you live without dignity!!? Were your brothers and sisters are slaughtered and humiliated daily. Let’s face a big fact, Palestine is an occupied country, West bank is an occupied Jordanian territory (check the history books if you want to), in such situations, things like personal needs and aspirations take lower priority than the country’s need. As JFK once said:
“Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.”
When the Nazi’s started their invasion of Russia, Russian people didn’t surrender and give their territory to the Invading force so they can live happily, instead they fought and gave “23,100,000” (TWENTY THREE MILLION) lives, so that the next generation can live with dignity.
So did the Vietnamese people, they didn’t accept to divide Vietnam to north and south Vietnam and give the south to the Americans and make a peace treaty, they fought and won their dignified independence.
We can win if we believe so.

“Ahhhmm! that makes the charity a conduit not a fund. there is a difference between providing logistics and providing the goods. Over 90%of the goods are UNRWA and UPA.”

I never said it was a fund. You can argue the semantics all you like, but there is only one way to get across the border and if you think that if Jordan stopped suddenly Egypt or Lebanon would be allowed to do it then you are sadly mistaken. As for 90%, I’d be interested in seeing where you got that number from. Because if the tonage of stuff the Jordanian people are sending is only 10%, then Gaza is doing pretty decently.

Would you allow an article calling for the overthrow of the Egyptian or other Arab regimes? No you won’t. So please stop using this silly excuse. You chose articles you like and you exclude those you don’t like. And that’s fair. It’s your blog. but spare us the lame justifications.

As long as people frame their opinion pieces with actual arguments as opposed to emotive slogans, then it’s all good.

In fact, someone has just sent us a piece countering this one and arguing on the opposite side and it will be posted shortly.

So please, before you jump to conclusions please recognize that this site is based on user-generated content. We don’t pick and choose people’s submissions based on whether we agree or disagree with their arguments.

Thanks

This is the worst argument that could possibly be made in support of continuing diplomatic relations between Jordan and Israel at this time. To tell those that demand help from your government by a certain form of action, that you would rather that your government not oblige because you are afraid of what suffering that might cause to you is the worst thing that you can say.

You could have simply said that cutting diplomatic relations would not help the situation in Gaza a bit because it wouldn’t result in any less missiles landing in the city and around it, and that on the contrary, it would lead to more suffering because it would jeopardize the movement of aid from Jordan into the Gaza strip (which of course has to go through land controlled by Israel).

Regards.

Farah,

Please explain what do you mean by saying: “I honestly don’t understand those who want to go into “war” and start a “jihad” against the Israelis.”

Please define Jihad?

Each time I go back to this Post and read some of the comments I feel worst than seeing the Israeli’s killing our children… Shame on us for being as ignorant as some of the opinions here.

“cutting diplomatic relations with israel would not help the situation in Gaza a bit because it wouldn’t result in any less missiles landing”

Hamza N, next time one of your loved one passes away we will not show up at the funeral because it will not bring them from the dead. And next time you have a serious illness we will not visit you because it will not heal the disease, but we will send you a can of hommous and a blanket.

You are Israel’s best friend. an arab with no regard for arab life. an arab with no dignity. you probable have no close friends and care for no one. You have all the qualifications you need to be a star in Jordan’s government.

I was going to refrain from participating in the debate due to the uncivilized nature I feel the debate has taken. So many arguments have been presented, some of them very convincing, and I cannot address all of them, but there are some points I would like to clarify.

The treaty may not be in the best interest of Jordan economically or in other aspects, but the state of security of a country, is in my opinion the most important. I don’t think that annulling the treaty would automatically start a war, but from what we’re seeing now, Israel does not exactly play by the rules, and seeing as we don’t have the resources matching the country next door to us, the pragmatic solution is to have a peace agreement between the two. Now if annulling the treaty could have had a hand in ending the atrocities committed, it would’ve been a viable option, and I would be the first to support it. But it wouldn’t, it is an expression of resentment, which again, I understand, but don’t think it would be worth jeopardizing the safety of the country for. Not to mention it’s a huge step back in the peace process that is desperately needed in this region.

This is not a Palestinian-Jordanian issue at hand, as some commentators somehow assumed I meant. It’s a humanitarian issue. When more than 400 people are being slaughtered cold-bloodedly, it’s a violation of all human rights. Not Palestinian or Jordanian rights. Just human rights.

Emad, I simply meant going into war. The choice of words stemmed from recent discussions using this phrase. I don’t want to repeat myself on why I don’t believe in such a solution but I will say this: believing in yourself, learning from your mistakes and having faith: these are all very noble ideas, but if we don’t have the means to back them up (military or otherwise) it’s useless. And it’s not selfish not to engage in something that is bound to fail. It’s realistic.

In the end, this is an opinion article and a difference in opinion is to be expected. I was presenting the other side of the argument that is not being discussed. I am not in any way belittling the massacre the people in Gaza are going through, but it shouldn’t mean that we need to put on blindfolds and follow the masses in whatever they say or demand.

May god help those in Gaza, may we see an end to these atrocities soon enough and thank you all for your comments.

Naseem

You said: “7iber is a non-partisan platform that allows for all voices to be heard in the Jordanian sphere, as they have a right to be. We don’t pick and choose posts. People submit content and we post it for them. It is that simple.”

I would like to post an article. Please tell me how?

Emad: all materials are sent to editor@7iber.com

Tarallala, your funeral analogy simply doesn’t fit. No where in my comment did I say that Jordanians should not offer their condolences and sympathies to the loss of lives among their Palestinian brothers (which is what funerals are for). Yet, that is the impression your analogy produces.

Your sickness analogy also doesn’t fit for the same reason, but on top of that it was deliberately sabotaged by your rhetoric. You deliberately used the term “a can of homous” instead of any type of medicine, because had you chosen medicine instead (which is the natural form of aid to offer the sick), it would have made my argument stronger: sending aid into Gaza from Jordan would actually help the Palestinians in this time of need.

Your last paragraph is nothing but a tired exercise in throwing labels and judgments based on nothing but emotions. Anyone who has participated in online debates long enough would tell you that this achieves nothing but irritate your readers, which is hardly the goal of any constructive comment. I assume, out of good faith, that you were trying to be constructive here.

Hamza N, my last comment was not a serious one, sorry you could not tell a tongue in cheek
comment from a serious one. still thanks for taking the time to comment

on a more serious note, i think it’s not nice to keep using the plight of the palestinains to justify a non-response to Israeli brutality. It’s cynical and callous.

You could care less for aid to Gaza. you just think it’s a smart argument in an online debate, as evident from your debate tips to your ideological comrade, Farah. That does not make you a nice guy, just a cynical one.

I also have bad news for you. yesterday, PM Dahabi said Jordan’s relations with Israel will be reconsidered. I guess he must be an emotional, irrational, impulsive type, unlike you the calculating, indifferent type.

>>> but it shouldn’t mean that we need to put on blindfolds and follow the masses in whatever they say or demand.

but it shouldn’t also mean that we put on blindfolds and follow the US either even if it’s to the detriment of our own national security. if the peace treaty with Israel is not changed to force Israel to accept its 4th Geneva Convention responsibilities by taking back the refugees, then this peace treaty poses a clear and present danger to Jordan’s stability and national security.

Farah, you can’t pretend that Jordan’s security is not threatened by Israel’s refusal to allow the refugees to go home. by dumping its refugee problem on Jordan, israel has already destabilized the country once in the 70s.

unless if you have the stomach for a confrontation with the refugees when they start rejecting their miserable situation and demanding change. is this what you want? that’s what the present peace treaty will lead to in a matter of years. that’s Israels’ best case scenario, Arabs killing Arabs. which is what happened in 1970s in Jordan and in 1980s in Lebanon and later in Nahr Elbared.

So you can either shove your head in the sand and pretend we have a peace treaty that will ensure Jordan’s security, or you put up a good fight with all the tools available at your disposal to amend the peace treaty with Israel to enforce right of return or you fight along side the refugees to help them return to their land. And believe me, Hezbollah proved you don’t need a powerful military to pressure israel.

the peace treaty gives Israel security but destabilizes Jordan. so stop pretending your support for the peace treaty is about Jordan’s security, and start listening to the Arab masses since they have shown to possess greater foresight, more accurate moral compass, and greater concern for Arab national security then two-bit dictators who are protected or funded by the US and who have historically put their own interests above the interest of the Arab world.

Joe; do us a favour and go home, we really don’t need expats the likes of you who turn their noses down at the country that bore their parents and view their roots as something to be ashamed of….

… not to mention to complete inaccuracy of what you state (geez I wonder who you ended up hanging out with to get such weird notions of what jordanian society is al about? Are you sure you didn’t get on the wrong plane and land somewhere else?) Your’e the only person in the world with that idea of Jordanians. Oh – and if you have an issue with the call to prayer – you should definitley stay in Ny where you cans kip over the homeless every morningon your way to work and hear the call of angry taxi drivers swearing at you and others calling you an A-rab

Tarallala, there has been a strong and recognized Jordanian response to the Israeli aggression on Gaza. It has been markedly stronger and more effective than the response of almost any other Arab nation, AND it included the statement you referred to by PM Dhahabi. So when you say that I’m justifying a “non-response,” you would be wrong.

Finally, regarding PM Dhahabi’s statement. I personally chose to not take it very seriously. I think it’s a statement that’s made to silence those who care so much about symbolic gestures. Our government will reconsider the country’s relations with Israel, sure they’ll do. They’ll have a lunch meeting one day and decide that “after reconsidering, we see that it’s still in Jordan’s best interest to maintain diplomatic relations.” Yuppy!

After reading one of the blogger’s comment on terrorism. I received this, in my opinion. objective piece of journalism by William Sieghart. It is imperative that we try and not slip into that repetitive “terrorist” drone by the US and Israeli media.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5420584.ece

I don’t wish to take sides but I have some points for everyone’s benefit.

I) I am not surprised to read comments such as Hemza N and Farah. Most people who grow up in repressive countries either on the repressing side or the receiving side do not have a clear notion of human rights and human dignity. Repressive systems eschew the human rights culture and reduce it to public statements to deflect critics or to attract Western sponsors. Human rights culture in Jordan is skin deep.

II) Few Jordanians who belong to the official class actually make a living out of dealings with Israel. Their defense of the peace treaty is self-motivated since it’s absence could jeopardize not only their livelihood but also years of work they have based on Jordan’s security and economic cooperation with Israel. I am not taking sides, just explaining the motives based on what some of my Jordanian friends who have well-funded “dialog” or “exchange” NGOs built on joint Jordanian-Israel ventures and others who receive US funding.

Despite the fact all studies have demonstrated beyond any doubt that Jordan’s peace treaty with Israel is a strategic threat to Jordan, the treaty still benefits a small clique of powerful Jordanians, who are the last line of defense in support of the Jordan-Israel peace treaty. I know I am not saying anything new since most Jordanians know by know that politics in Jordan is rarely about the interest of Jordan but simply the interest of this small powerful clique.

Food for thought.

HamzaN, Farah…why don’t you answer your critics. how do you propose for Jordan to pressure Israel to let the refugees go home if the peace treaty does not even mention that?

I don’t understand how you claim that the peace treaty is good for Jordan when the king himself keeps rejecting turning Jordan into an alternative homeland for expelled Palestinians, yet this is what Jordan’s peace treaty with Israel effectively does since it absolves Israel from those Palestinians it ethnically cleaned and pushed into Jordan.

I won’t blame the late King Hussein since no doubt the US and Israel were secretly threatening all sorts of political and economic consequences if the late king refused to sign a peace treaty with Israel. But what’s your excuse? What’s your deal? Or if Majali is correct, how do you benefit from this peace treaty when it forces Jordan into fulfilling the McCain Plan?

In a democracy, an elected leaders before making a strategic decision asks the question, What’s good for my country and its future. In an Arab dictatorship, the despot asks the question, what will keep the US happy with me. That’s about the only question asked when an Arab dictator decides to flirt with Israel, not the greater good, not the long-term interest of the people and the country, just a question of political survival. That’s for Arab despots only.

Because African dictators, during Apartheid South Africa, took serious blows from the White regime but refused to provide security cooperation with them and rejected any normalization with the Whites at the expense of Blacks.

So is it possible that Arab despots are the lowest form of human beings and the most morally depraved of all types of despots known in modern history?

First, i would like to say am not going to follow what some called “decent debate”, so for those who are very sensitive and know all about “human rights” DON’T READ!
To Farah i think you just didn’t reply because you simply can’t, but about this:

“May god help those in Gaza, may we see an end to these atrocities soon enough”

Was just listening to Shimon Peres, and GOD how much similar you two sound. Keep sympathizing with people dying there, and meanwhile keep supporting those who kill them.
No matter how “not civilzed” this might sound, heroes struggling in Gaza don’t need your Sympathy, especially from those who try to help killing them.

PS if you were walking in the street & someone jumped on you, hitting you and trying to steal your wallet, people will just watch and sympathize. Maybe the thief will shoot them or stab them or whatever, so it is better for one to protect oneself. They’ll just send you their symapthy and I hope it will do.

3AIB, those are our brothers there, they are not aliens.

Oops i just read the editor’s note, which seems to be recently added because I didn’t see it before.

Anyway sorry Mr Editor, I seriously could find no lanuage to use replying on this “REPLY”
don’t they say “sakata dahran wo nataqa kofran”?

Never ever imagined that i’ll actually see Arabs talking about Israel as if it is an ally.

Simply shocked!!!

Don’t be shocked. In any country you will always find 5% who will do anything for wealth and power. The unsavory remarks you are reading are originating from that 5%. Democracy protects against those 5% by wresting power in the hands of the majority. The US prefers to see this 5% run our affairs in return for money or the preservation of their power over the remaining 95% of Arabs.

So guess how those 5% retain power over the 95% ? murder, torture, corruption, with the full support of the Pentagon and CIA. It’s that simple. Always been that simple.

It consumes so much energy to keep the 95% under the 5% boots. You need to divide them, brainwash them, corrupt them, all of that leaves little time for any meaningful development other then bogus programs that look good in press releases until the next UNDP or HRW or IMF report comes out to tell us how horrifically wrong things have been going over the the last year, and the year before and so on and so forth.

But don’t despair. 95% of Arabs see eye to eye with you. They just don’t have the power to make a change yet. And they are not necessarily avid bloggers.

I find it laughable that the pro-hamas/war with Israel posse are lecturing on Human Rights. Unlike you I don’t look at the 500 dead as numbers, they are human beings, each one had friends, a family, dreams and aspirations, etc.. Those deaths could have been avoided if Hamas didn’t attack Israel and if they had tried a peaceful solution. That’s what we are doing here, asking for peace, and putting an end to the current (and future) bloodshed. So please, if you are with disturbing the peace, do not preach about Human Rights, you just come of as rambling hypocrites.

“Ahmad”, shame on you. Israel kills Palestinians and you blame the resistance. These are Israeli bombs and bullets that take innocent lives and they are made in the US and funded by American tax payers. And by the way, to me anyone who is defending his land is innocent.

But in case you have forgotten it took a million and half murdered Algerians to evict the genocidal french out of Algeria. It took over a million Vietnamese killed by Uncle Sam to kick the b******* out. Same for Iraq.

And it may take us more sacrifices to end colonialism, direct or indirect, and bring democracy and freedom to the Arabs. Gaza may be the turning point.

Well, I should not get upset. Any Shlomo and Ja3ja3 can pretend to be an Ahmad on the web.

if that is true, there’s no need to attack the civilians in Gaza, no excuse!
Israel with the most updated technology can work to reach Hamas Militants without causing any harm to the civilians…

and so there’s no need for the siege on Gaza, that denies the access of FOOD, AID, MEDICAL SUPPLIES, FUEL!! to the civilians.

Israel knows how to differentiate between the civilians and the militants and they used to do that, when they targeted the militants key leaders by car bombs.

this invasion aims to takeover the parliament seats in the Israeli coming elections, a misleading plan to buy the voters!

Yeah you are right Sami anyone can claim to be an Ahamd.

“That’s what we are doing here, asking for peace, and putting an end to the current (and future) bloodshed. So please, if you are with disturbing the peace, do not preach about Human Rights, you just come of as rambling hypocrites.”

Ahmad, so you want to stop the bloodshed that has never stopped for the past 60 years?! Hamas hasn’t ever existed you know, yet palestinains were ever killed and murdered in the ugliest possible ways, and we are still defending the so called peace. Hamas hasn’t been firing missiles since ever, it is just the excuse Zionists use, and i don’t know if you believe it or simply chose to.

By the way, I really advice you to read further and more thoroughly. You can never be more mistaken if you think that there is a single Zionist who wants you or wants me alive. They hate all arabs with peace treaties or without them, and you’ll just be blind if you didn’t get this yet.

It is not about Hamas, or any other resistance. On the contrary, it is a war against me, you and those in Gaza.
So please if you are looking at those 500 people as human beings, as innocent souls, keep in mind that they are dying because of our peace treaties, because of Rafah border that is yet to be closed. Add to this that you are calling for peace with the very same people murdering them. That’s not exactly what anyone can call, respecting their souls.

N.B – Visit http://www.israel-vs-palestine.com/gz/, go there and see what zionists say about arabs, or go to any other blog, discussion board and just read, and tell me if they really want the peace. This peace that they reject and we never stop calling for.

– 40 people of the same family were murdered today, all of them except for one. Two days ago, israelis (those who know all about human rights, those with whom we should achieve peace), asked them all to go into the same house or they’ll destroy their houses, and so did the family. Today, they fired missiles on the house and killed everybody. Watch al jazeera or any other channel, do they really want to leave us in peace?

you can lie to yourself, but this is just too much. Especially that it doesn’t only include you, it includes a whole nation.

SHAME ON THE PEACE WHEN IT MEANS SURRENDER!

Sami and Shocked:
I realize the Israeli bullets are killing the Palestinians, as I said before I’m not condoning what they are doing, BUT Hamas are to blame for provoking a clearly superior enemy. They knew perfectly well that Israel will retaliate and kill ten Palestinians for every Israeli, but they obviously didn’t care. You say Israel want’s to kill us all, so why the hell should we give it an excuse to!?! Peace treaties are the only thing that will temporarily stop the blood shed, it’s fine if you disagree, but please don’t ever talk about Human right’s and compassion if you do.

Also Sami you are obviously emotionally crippled if you are asking for sacrifices. I would like you to see you tell a small girl that both her parent’s died for the good of Arabs. As I said before, you see the dead as figures while sitting comfortably on your computer, that’s why are asking for more.

As for my name yes it’s Ahmad unfortunately, I am from Irbid living in Amman, and I don’t have to prove anything to you. I also don’t see how it has any bearing on how you perceive my post.

>>> Hamas are to blame for provoking a clearly superior enemy

Ahmed, so what you are telling us that when “provoked” by a far inferior force, Jews in Israel have a legitimate right to kill non-Jewish babies?

Ahmad please read http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5420584.ece

Ahmad, Basically according to your illogic, anytime a people want to be free, all the occupying power has to do is to kill their babies and that turns those who wish to free themselvs into partners in the murders?

Dude, what are you drinking?

dear ahmad (or sholomo), you and others have made your case for denouncing the palestinian resistance and for supporting the treaty, but you offered nothing in terms of alternatives to permanent resettlement of Palestinians in Jordan or to armed resistance to help the palestinains rid themselves of colonialism.

How come all of you pro-Israelis just dump on us but you never NEVER provide a working alternative. is it because you know that Israel has been killing Palestinians long before Hamas. Is it because you know that the peace process has helped provide cover for Israel while it expanded its jewish colonies, judfified Jerusalem, and crippling the palestinian economy? is it because you know Israeli jews will never accept that Arabs have same human rights (do you blame them when they see the way our dictators piss allover us)

you just want palestinains to be good occupied subjects, shut up, suffer quietly, and just vanish. that’s about the only thing that you will not object to.

Yahya, please go back and read my comments. The only thing I talked about was annulling the peace treaty with Israel as a response to the current offensive on Gaza. Basically, my point is this: under the current situation in Gaza, which is better? Being able to send food/medicine/clothes into Gaza which are all desperately needed, or canceling the peace treaty and doing nothing?

Hamza, STOP your cynical exploitation of the suffering of Gazans to legitimize something that causes far more harm to Jordanians and Palestinians. the Israelis, for their own PR purposes, will have to let supplies in one way or the other even if they have to do it themselves.

You keep ignoring questions about the role of the Jordan-Israel treaty in offloading the refugee problem on Jordan and absolving Israel from its legal and moral obligation. WHY DON’T YOU TELL US HOW THIS IS GOOD FOR JORDANIANS AND PALESTINIANS! and please, don’t hold back on account of sending aid trucks to Gaza if this is your only justification for the treaty.

Tamim,

You SERIOUSLY compare the battles of Al Karamah, D-Day, Yarmouk, Marathon with what we have now?!

They used to all have swords and all!

Now we’re talking about high tech advanced weapons, such as Nuclear which take YEARS to develop and require a tremendous amount of investment, and a massive amount of knowledge and expertise!

For God sake, stop living in the “Sala7 Al Deen” days. We’re in 2009. Be realistic. A guy with 2000 fighters all having faith will not resolve this issue. What we need is something bigger.

In my opinion, for this to be resolved, a huge war has to break where powers such as Israel, Iran and the United States will get engaged. And small countries in between, such as Jordan, will get nothing but massive damages.

Nayef Copty,

1) No one is living in the times of Sala7 Al Deen.

2) D-Day, karamah and Others are in the 20th Century, with Bombs, Jet Fighters, Tanks, and even Nuclear Weapons.

3) Battles are battles no matter how old they are, sword against sword, Machine Gun against machine gun. the basics are the same. thats why every modern warefare strategy book, and every military academy teaches Marathon and Cannae and other ancient battles.

4) Hezbollah liberated the south of Lebanon from Isreal with simple weapons. so did the Vietnamese people and other nations in the times of Laser Guided Missiles and Spy Satellites.

Farah,

I absolutely support your opinion.

I also happen to be scared of what can possibly happen during the idle time BETWEEN an ended treaty and the time we are able to install a new one.

Modern government in Israel and the last 10+ conflicts will not make a second treaty plausible and if it does, it won’t be in our favor whatsoever.

I would stick to our current problems first before we talk further politics at a time of OPEN FIRE!

***** NAYEF *******

Please do not associate the U.N. with the U.S.

Extremely separate agendas and actually, the U.N. has gone against U.S. proposals the majority of the time. Also, the U.N. is for Gaza and FOR a revised political agreement between Israel and it’s Middle Eastern neighbors.

They have just expressed that, this past week, a billion times.

Salam, I’m an avid supporter of the right of return of Palestinian refugees to land within the whole of historical Palestine. Maybe the treaty between Jordan and Israel does compromise that right, but I currently don’t think it does.

More importantly, I don’t understand how you can accuse me of exploiting the suffering of people I care so much about in Gaza while I’m the one who’s putting their safety and the easing of their current suffering as the top priority, and you’re choosing to argue for solving the right of return which is the most complex problems in the entire Israeli-Arab conflict and by far not the most urgent matter.

Even if the Jordanian peace treaty with Israel compromised the right of return, I believe now is not the time to go back on it, because of the reasons I mentioned before regarding the ability to send aid into Gaza from Jordan (Syria can’t send aid to Gaza for example, not even through Jordan).

Your argument that Israel will sooner or later (much later trust me) have to allow aid into Gaza no matter what is valid, but it will come at a high cost on the Palestinian side that we can avoid. Minimizing the suffering in Gaza as a result of the current Israeli assault should be our topmost priority, and believe me when I say the worst Jordan can do is cut its relations with Israel in the middle of this.

I’m not a strict supporter of the current peace treaty with Israel. I’m sure it has many deficiencies which must be addressed.

I simply believe now is not the time to do it.

“Maybe the treaty between Jordan and Israel does compromise that right, but I currently don’t think it does.”

HAMZA!!! DUH!!! What do you mean “maybe” “you don’t think”? GO READ THE TREATY (TERMS OF SURRENDER, ACTUALLY) BEFORE YOU PONTIFICATE WORTHLESS NONSENSE.

A peace treaty is a BINDING CONTRACT between two countries that declares the end of conflict and returns the situation to the status quo before war. THERE IS NOTHING IN THE TREATY THAT BINDS ISRAEL TO ANYTHING ON THE REFUGEE CATASTROPHE. NOTHING!!! Over a decade has passed since the treaty was signed with Israel. DO YOU SEE JORDAN RETURNING TO THE STATUS QUO BEFORE THE CONFLICT? I see dozens of refugee camps and I see Israel blocking refugees from returning. And I see the refugee problem posing the greatest threat to Jordan and Lebanon.

We either cancel the surrender treaty that damages Jordan or turn it into a real peace treaty that rolls back the effects of war. The treaty gives Israel cover to play moderates versus fanatics. This is the time that Israel is at its most vulnerable. One PR defeat while Israel is butchering civilians, and Israel is toast globally and in the West.

Why can’t we play it as intelligently as Iran, for once? Why can’t we learn to assess the strengths and weaknesses of our enemy and make bold moves accordingly instead of playing dead all the time. If we cancel the treaty with Israel, we pull from beneath them the propaganda rug and return the conflict to one between a bloody colonialist and a colonized thirds world people. With the Israeli massacres in Gaza, we have the ultimate moral pretext and a political pretext.

By demanding an amendment to the Wadi Araba treaty now or threatening to cancel it, at least the blood of Gazans will not go to waste and we can force Israel to accept to negotiate the dismantling of the refugee camps in Jordan and the repatriation of the refugees and a return to pre 48 status quo. And that would be a real peace treaty.

We don’t want a treaty that was signed just to protect the regime and to enrich its thugs with Israeli QIZ investments and American contract. We want a peace treaty to protect Jordan and Jordanians. Everyone who supports the treaty today makes a living form the US or Israel. EVERYONE!!! JORDAN’S FUTURE IS BEING SOLD FOR DOLLARS!!!

If King Abdullah plays this one smart, while Israel is in a precarious position, I think he will be the most popular and the most respected Arab leader not just for all Jordanians but everywhere. That would be an ingenious diplomatic move because it server TWO VERY CRITICAL OBJECTIVES: it will protect Jordan from the greatest source of instability facing internally and it protects the Palestinians’ most sacred human right: the right of return. Two BIG BIRDS with one stone. And you can forget Nasrallah and Ahmadi Najjad and Abdunasser and Saddam and Guevara.

“Modern government in Israel and the last 10+ conflicts will not make a second treaty plausible and if it does, it won’t be in our favor whatsoever.”

Kyle: you have spoken like a true zionist. you have used the threat of violence against Jordan to warn us not to attempt to get a real peace treaty.

Fellow Jordanians, this is a fine specimen of Israeli colonialist thinking. Since the discussion is about the refugees, the implied threat here is that if we push Israel on the refugees, Israel will wage war on us again.

That’s why we signed the Wadi Araba treaty. And if the late King Hussein could tell us, he would have said that he had no choice. But that would have been politically costly for him. So we had to put a positive spin on it. Fact is, this treaty was a result of American and Israeli blackmail of the late King. Do you want to keep the Kingdom? sign.

Any decent patriotic Jordanian must stand up to this treaty. Either we sign a peace treaty that reverses the devastating effects of Israel’s wars by reversing the refugee tragedy, or we say no to treaty that turns Jordan into Israel’s dumping grounds for all its problems.

Salam, try stay away from “osloob el-rade7″ please!

Some things you said I agree with, but I’m mostly interested in the next form of action. I still notice that you focus on the refugees problem. I honestly don’t understand why you choose to worry about this problem under the current circumstances in Gaza. I think stopping the death and destruction in Gaza is a much more urgent and important goal to achieve at this moment.

Anyway, having observed the US media long enough, I assure you that your hope for an “Israeli PR defeat” is too optimistic. A unilateral withdrawal from the peace treaty between Jordan and Israel will only be reported as another “unfathomable” threat to the US ally by another Arab/Muslim country. It will be used by the Israeli lobby to request more aid from the US, and stop aid to Jordan, and those things will happen. Rest assured any explanations Jordan tries to announce for its move will either be twisted or completely dropped by the media. After the peace treaty is gone, the refugees issue will be completely off the negotiations table as far as Jordan is concerned, because there will be no negotiations table, and the “fact on the ground” will be that the refugees are in Jordan.

If you really want the refugee problem to be partially solved via the Jordanian channel, then your best bet is to seek amendment of the peace treaty, but even doing that now will be exploited by the media in the US against us. It will be reported as the Jordanians only watching out for their own interest when their “brothers” are being killed in Gaza. It will be reported as Jordan trying to “dump the problem of a growing Hamas-supporting population in the refugee camps on Israel.” It will be used as another backing point for Israeli pundits to say that “even the Arabs don’t want to deal with the Palestinians.”

Amending the peace treaty is something I do not object to, but doing it at this time again in my opinion is probably the worst thing Jordan can do.

“I think stopping the death and destruction in Gaza is a much more urgent and important goal to achieve at this moment.”

Hamza, again you use the Palestinian suffering as a human shield in this debate to protect yourself from answering tough question about the treaty and the betrayal of Jordan.

Are you are a beneficiary of the treaty. and if we dig deeper? will we find that you or someone close to you has a vested business interest? That’s what it always boils down to in Jordan’s official circles. Not love of country or humanity, just love of business and investment. Where do you work Hamza? US? On what project? We need some info to know if you are a neutral player.

and one more thing Hamza N, don’t flatter yourself. You are not the spokesperson for the Palestinians in Gaza. His name is Ismael Hanieh and he really cares for his people.

Hamza, you could have fooled us into thinking you are israeli spokesperson Miri Regev. Did you copy and paste your reply from the Israeli Foreign Ministry website?

You have your logic upside down.

While the Israeli massacres are ongoing, Jordan has two major advantages that will not exist soon as Israel prevails or conflict is over.

JORDAN’S MORAL PRETEXT: If Jordan suspends the treaty now, the moral justification is strong enough to give us the best protection. We are angry over the brutality of Israel. We are a nation that opposes brutality. We are Arabs who reject Israeli slaughter of fellow Arabs. I would have suspended the treaty or at least kicked the israeli ambassador after the UN school bombing.

ISRAEL’S VULNERABILITY: Israel cannot afford to have Jordan, its moderate ally, suspending the treaty in protest over Israel’s brutality. That would irreversibly damage the Israeli claim that this is a fight between moderates and terrorists, when in reality this is all about Israel trying to dump Gaza on Egypt and a swiss-cheesed non-viable West Bank on Jordan.

After the massacre is over, Israel has nothing to fear from a suspension of the treaty. It would come across as if Jordan is being a spoiler, nothing more.

Timing is everything. You hit the enemy when he is vulnerable and when you have a watertight justification.

After reading your inverted logic, I doubt you have any notion the importance of timing. I hope you never end up in any diplomatic position in Jordan.

>>> It will be used as another backing point for Israeli pundits to say that “even the Arabs don’t want to deal with the Palestinians.”

hamza, is this how Jordan’s national security is being managed, by asking ourselves what Israeli pundits say?

this about justice and human rights . we are abiding by the letter and spirit of the Geneva conventions and all human rights laws pertaining to displaced persons. above all, this is also what the palestinains want.

you want us to throw all of these positive factors just because of what Israeli pundits might say. Hamza, you deal with the situation from pro-israeli perspective and not from a pro-Jordan’s national security perspective. that’s why debating you is frustrating.

Salam, excuse me but who the f*** are you to begin with?

Right now, you’re the one who’s using the suffering of Palestinians in Gaza to push a purely Jordanian agenda of getting rid of refugees and staving off the prospect of the West Bank going into Jordan.

Your hypocrisy is sickening. You don’t even make the slightest attempt to acknowledge that the right of return of refugees is first and foremost the refugees’ right.

Hamza, In this debate, I am not the one who wants to keep the refugees suffering and on the back burner, rotting in the camps because of what Israeli pundits might say. I am not the one who is harming Palestinian and Jordanian interests because of what some American might think of me. Read your comments. They are the ultimate indictment.

Everything you and Farah offered was in support of Israel:

- Protests are bad.
- Kicking out Israeli ambassador is bad.
- Suspending the treaty is bad.
- Upsetting Israeli pundits is bad.

My position is complete opposite of yours. And every Palestinian and every Jordanian on this forum can tell the difference between us. It’s too late for you to change sides.

BTW, I was one of those who yelled their lungs out during your father’s ordeal at Hamza Hospital. I hope is is better now. You never said who the F*** am I when I took your side. Tsk tsk.

hamza, one more thing. you should practice what you preach. I never used foul language in my notes to you. but you…MAN..talk about Extra Strength Rade7 and talk about hypocrisy.

Hamza giving advice: Salam, try stay away from “osloob el-rade7″ please!

Hamza after his advice: Salam, excuse me but who the f*** are you to begin with?

TADAAAA! DUJJJ!

I am not the one who wants to keep the refugees suffering and on the back burner, rotting in the camps because of what Israeli pundits might say.

I don’t doubt for a second what you want, but I highly doubt what you can achieve. I know you don’t want Palestinians in Gaza to suffer. That’s the main difference between me and you. It’s too easy for you to accuse a person who really IS on your side of treason, simply because they have a different opinion than yours.

Everything you and Farah offered was in support of Israel:

- Protests are bad.
- Kicking out Israeli ambassador is bad.
- Suspending the treaty is bad.
- Upsetting Israeli pundits is bad.

FYI, I have a very different opinion than that of Farah’s, and my first comment here was mainly a criticism of her. I conditioned my opposition of the idea of withdrawing from the peace treaty with Israel on the short-term circumstances in Gaza.

Second, I never said protests are bad. On the contrary, I think the protests must be allowed and they must be intensified too, because I too want Arab governments to take stronger positions in their negotiations, and the protests provide a good amount of pressure on the leadership in any country no matter how repressive that leadership was.

I also never even attempted to defend Israeli pundits. Actually FYI, this seemingly-endless discussion with you over a secondary topic at the moment (the refugees) is not the only discussion I have been having online. Most discussions I have right now are with the real Israeli apologists, and usually I’m the only one defending the Arabs and trying to talk some sense into an American living in Texas who keeps saying “let them all die because they danced on September 11th.”

And every Palestinian and every Jordanian on this forum can tell the difference between us. It’s too late for you to change sides.

Whatever! Thanks, but I don’t have to change sides. Like it or not, I am an Arab Muslim and a fierce advocate of the Palestinian cause. If there is a difference between you and me, it is a difference in opinion, and I hope you’re right in that every person on this forum can see that, unlike you!

BTW, I was one of those who yelled their lungs out during your father’s ordeal at Hamza Hospital. I hope is is better now. You never said who the F*** am I when I took your side. Tsk tsk.

You have me mistaken for someone else. I’m not the person you’re thinking of.

hamza, one more thing. you should practice what you preach.

Oh please! After half a dozen personal attacks and insults, what did you expect? Just because I used “f***” once in this entire discussion you say I’m using your style of rade7? Sorry, but if there’s a prize to be given out here for the best radda7a it would go to you! And it’s not as if I used the expression “f***” unprovoked. I was responding to yet another one of your personal attacks, which I’m sorry to disappoint you “Salaam”, was like all others ill-founded. I don’t have a different opinion than you because I stand to gain anything from the peace treaty with Israel. You’re just too proud to listen, too comfortable in your predictions of success to even consider the possibility that you’re wrong! To you, the only explanation for my different opinion MUST BE that I’m a traitor, or that I simply don’t care about my fellow Arabs and Muslims in Gaza!

Hamzeh, thank you for taking the time to explain.

but i must disagree. we have nothing in common. i am willing to pay the price, and i have already paid dearly before, and so did my family before me, in the quest for freedom.

you, on the other hand, don’t want to scratch your nail.

it’s no longer enough to say you support human rights and freedom or stability and security. those days are gone. anyone can say the right words. Sharon did. Livni did that. Rice did. Mubarak did that.

Today, what matters is how we you are willing to push the envelope and how much we are willing to sacrifice to protect Jordan and Palestine. today, more than ever, the interests of the two people coincide, with the right of return and the liberation of Palestine. jordan will find its peace only when palestine finds its peace.

Hamas is in a religious war with the Jews.
The organization has repeatedly stated it will never accept a Jewish state
in the region and believes in a one state solution.
Israel is interested in a diplomatic agreement to end the conflict
with the Palestinians that will create a Palestinian state living in peace beside it.

Hamas believes in death. As one Hamas member told a journalist,
“The difference between us and them is
that they wait passionately for the day they can return home safely,
while we bid farewell to our families and hope to die as martyrs.
” Indeed, Israelis believe in life.

Hamas stands behind civilians, using them as shields. Israeli forces stand in front of civilians to protect them.

Hamas leaders flee at the first sign of danger, abandoning their people to suffer the consequences of their actions. Israeli leaders are the first into battle to defend their citizens.

Hamas hopes that innocent Palestinians will die so the world will blame Israel for the bloodshed. Israelis do everything possible to ensure no innocent Palestinians will die – going so far as to warn their enemies before attacks, thereby losing the element of surprise – so they will not blame themselves for taking innocent lives.

Hamas will use any cease-fire to regroup and prepare for continuing their pursuit of Israel’s destruction. Israel wants a cease-fire that will bring permanent peace for the Palestinian and Israeli people.

Hamas will deliberately target Israeli civilians with rockets and suicide attacks to kill as many innocents as possible and try to instill terror in the entire population. Israel will target the terrorists and seek to avoid harming the innocent.

Hamas sends its children to schools and summer camps that glorify martyrdom and encourage them to become suicide bombers who will diminish the human race. Israel sends its children to school to become doctors, lawyers, and scientists to enhance the lives of all people.

Hamas has created a theocracy in Gaza whose clerics preach intolerance toward non-Muslims and call for holy war against Jews and Christians. Israel is a democracy whose leaders rigorously enforce freedom of religion and seek peaceful relations with all its neighbors.

Hamas will ruthlessly murder any opponent, killing fellow Palestinians as readily as Israelis. Israelis will sign peace agreements with enemies who are prepared to recognize their right to exist and coexist beside them, as they did with the leaders of Egypt and Jordan.

Hamas is unconcerned by international opinion about its atrocities and confident the world will pressure Israel to stop its operation before its mission is complete. Israel knows the world is indifferent to the murder of its citizens, but cannot ignore the sentiments of its allies.

Hamas says it will never make peace. Israelis say they want nothing more than peace.

***********************

Hamas is using population of Gaza as human shields,
stocking weapons in mosques, hospitals, and schools.
Hamas is occupying the minds of palestinian people
with terror, misery, suffering and undernutrition

Israel’s decision to go into Gaza is an act of self-defense
to free its southern communities from the seven months of daily
onslaught of rockets by Hamas terrorists from Gaza.

no Western country would tolerate having missiles fired on their head.
Article 51 of the United Nations Charter reserves to every nation
the right to engage in self-defense against armed attacks.
The only limitation international law places on a democracy
is that its actions must satisfy the principle of proportionality.

“No democratic, peace-loving nation in the world would stand by in the face of
relentless attacks from a terrorist organization,”

. “In addition to attacking Israeli civilians, Hamas is
endangering the Palestinians living in Gaza by placing its weaponry in civilian
areas. The people of Israel overwhelmingly wish to live peacefully with their
neighbors. However, as long as Hamas terrorists continue to operate aggressively
in Gaza, the people of Israel remain under unacceptable threat.”

Hamas is responsible of war crimes putting its civilian palestinian at risk
using them as humain shield.That is how the IslamoNazis of today
is exploiting the palestinian people
“Hamas leaders are hiding and they are leaving you on the front line,” says a voice in accented Arabic from gaza city
“Hamas has misled you and abandoned you,” a man’s voice said in Arabic. “If you call any leader of Hamas, nobody will answer.”

Hamas must be running out of shields (women and children) over there in Gaza, so now they’re just plain running.
The positive sign is that Hamas is not only hiding from the Israelis, but now from Gazans who well know who brought the hell that’s now raining down on them.

hat Hamas is committing three war crimes
– targeting Israeli civilians, using Palestinian civilians as human shields,
and seeking the destruction of a member state of the United Nations -
and that Israel is acting in self-defense and out of military necessity, the conflict will continue.

Hamas of failing to distribute some of
the humanitarian aid delivered to Gaza and selling it
on the black market instead. She said she based her claim on Israeli intelligence.

“Since Hamas’s violent takeover in the summer of 2007,
living conditions have worsened for Palestinians in Gaza.
By spending its resources on rocket launchers instead of roads and schools,
Hamas has demonstrated that it has no intention of serving the Palestinian people.”

“Hamas and its supporters (iran, syria) bear sole responsibility for any harm to Gaza’s civilians.”

“Hamas seized control and has abused Gaza to build its terrorist capabilities…”

“Hamas could have easily changed Israeli policies merely by renouncing extremism and terrorism.

It chose war instead”

Jean -

You sound like you work for the Israeli Foreign Affairs. Are you one of the paid responders that Foreign affairs office set up to respond to online “anti-Semitism”? The hasbara brigade? http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/01/05/gaza-foreign-ministry-media-manipulation/

A quick history of Hamas – Hamas was supported by Israel in the beginning in order to counter the PLO popularity. Why would Israel do that?

Gaza has been under a complete closure for a couple of years now. No food, water, or other basic resources have been let in in any regular schedule. Children are suffering and starving (including their schools being bombed). If you were in that situation, what would you being doing to change it?

Israel can’t do without Hamas because where would its excuse to kill, maim, and ethnically cleanse the Palestinians come from? The PA is in the pockets of the US and Israel, so where would Israel get the excuse to kill 600 innocent Palestinians as opposed to 5 Israelis? Hamas is the perfect excuse.

Isn’t Israel a theocracy too? Where only Jews have rights and everyone else is a second class citizen? Palestinian living in Israel don’t get any of the special privileged that Jews do.

Only when Zionists begin to understand that the modern colonial project of Palestine is as racist and discriminatory as South Africa, will it crumble just as all the colonial legacies before.

“Hamas is in a religious war with the Jews”

JEAN: Hamas did not exist when Jews waged war on people of holy land. This is a text from their book. the first license from their God to commit ethnic cleaning. There was no Hamas, no PLO, no Islam, no Christianity, no Russia, no Germany.

50 On the plains of Moab by the Jordan across from Jericho the LORD said to Moses, 51 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you cross the Jordan into Canaan, 52 drive out all the inhabitants of the land before you.

Jean, centuries later, Theodore Herzl, the founding father of Zionism wrote in the 19th century, again, long before Hamas, Hizbouallah, or PLO:

“We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country …. expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.” — Theodore Herzl (from Rafael Patai, Ed. The Complete Diaries of Theodore Herzl, Vol I)

So Jean, Hamas is just a reaction to jewish violence against gentiles in the holy land. Every action begets a reaction. So spare us your nonsense. Israel thrives on Palestinian backlash to legitimize retroactively all past and future atrocities.

Dear 7iber Mangers, For fairness sake and to acknowledge Jordanian blogs who are truly committed to free exchange of ideas, I wish to thank you for your commitment to freedom of expression on 7iber. Most of my comments have been rejected on Roba Al-Assi’s blog on Kuffyyah even though they are same as those remarks I posted on 7iber. I am mentioning this to make an important point: censorship is not only governmental or self-inflicted in Jordan, we censor each others even on forums such as blogs that were designed to allow a greater freedom of exchange of ideas than the press or academia. But it seems the culture of blogging has not sunk into the Jordanian blogosphere yet, years after it was launched. The Gaza conflict may have brought to the fore other issues that need to be discussed at some point including but not limited to: why do we blog? why not have a monologue in newsletters and email lists instead of pretending that we want to invite opposing views. Food for thought.

Hamas is using population of Gaza as human shields,
stocking weapons in mosques, hospitals, and schools.
Hamas is occupying the minds of palestinian people
with terror, misery, suffering and undernutrition

That is their Values !!!!!

*********************************

Hamas and its affiliates in Gaza have launched thousands of rockets and mortars into southern Israel.

Their goal is to kill and terrorize defenseless Israeli men, women, and children as they go about their daily lives.
they promote martyrdom with 70 virgins for the final show.

Hamas assiduously tries to upgrade its weapons to raise the number of casualties caused by each attack.

Hamas’ larger goal, stated in its founding document, is to murder Jews,
“obliterate Israel” and replace it with a medieval Caliphate.

Hamas incites hatred and violence, liberally quoting from the anti-Semitic forgery, Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Hamas terrorizes other Palestinians, forcing them to obey its radical interpretation of Islam,
using them as human shields and embedding terrorist infrastructure in Gaza’s civilian
neighborhoods. It has tortured local Christians and murdered its political rivals in Fatah along with their children.

It denies Gazans due process, the rule of law, and personal
freedom. It uses international aid for weapons, not for humanitarian and civic projects.

It targets Israeli civilians yet cries human rights abuse when Israel responds and
injures the human shields that Hamas intentionally puts in harm’s way.

This pattern of conduct constitutes war crimes, collective punishment,
and grave violations of international law and of civilized behavior. We call upon the world community to
condemn and denounce Hamas and its supporters for the pathological behavior that has made them pariahs.
Those who excuse or justify Hamas are themselves abusing all civilized standards of
conduct.

check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3c5uWIDBXY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OefgMtXOc1M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXv08ahzZRw

Jean -

http://www.google.jo/search?q=Hamas+and+its+affiliates+in+Gaza+have+launched+thousands+of+rockets+and+mortars+into+southern+Israel.&ie;=utf-8&oe;=utf-8&aq;=t&rls;=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client;=firefox-a

I just want to know if you are getting paid to spout “official Israeli PR.”

JEAN VERCORS, before you trash this blog with cut and paste jobs, please take the time to answer the charges against Israelis and zionism, whose violence led to the creation of Palestinian resistance movements.

Let me remind you that the text below was taken from the Jewish holy book. It’s the first license from your God to commit ethnic cleaning. There was no Hamas, no PLO, no Islam, no Christianity, no Russia, no Germany.

50 On the plains of Moab by the Jordan across from Jericho the LORD said to Moses, 51 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you cross the Jordan into Canaan, 52 drive out all the inhabitants of the land before you.

So Jean, it seems to me if it were not for your violence against non-jews, none of this would have happened. But there is agreement that Israel needs Palestinian violence to pursue its Zionist program. Otherwise how can you justify killing over 700 Palestinians because of rockets that killed about 10 Israelis? Fact is, if there is even a remote chance for peace, you will find a way to explode the situation. A safe and quite Palestine, means a thriving Palestine. That goes against Theodore Herzl’s strategy of impoverishing non-jews to force them out:

“We shall try to spirit the penniless (non-jewish) population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country …. expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.” — Theodore Herzl (from Rafael Patai, Ed. The Complete Diaries of Theodore Herzl, Vol I)

The above was declared in the 19th century. there was no Hamas or PLO or even any Palestinian resistance what so ever. Sustaining conflict and deliberate impoverishment of the Palestinians is the core mission of Israel.

So why bother with the side effects. Why dodge the accusations that you need to create an atmosphere of insecurity in holy land. Without it, Israel would fall apart.

Salaam, i seriously do appreciate the efforts u r paying 2 defend ur point of view and supporting those in need of our support.

This is wut i used 2 do two years ago, but now i strongly believe that there is no point of debating with those ppl, it will simply take so much of ur power and energy, and it will drive u mad and make u feel that sting in ur stomach. So as an advice, if u want 2 do our cause good, try 2 visit those websites and blogs where ppl need inlighting about islam and our cause, where there r ppl who know nothing about Muslims or the conflict here. Do that instead of debating with those who only say things that r completely BULLSHIT. Trust me u’ll feel better, u’ll b doing sth better and most importantly u’ll b able to make a differnece!

Thank you.

Shocked, that sums up 20 years of dialog with Israelis. you either move towards their narrative or you find yourself keep talking to a wall.

How do you call jews living in palestine Before 1948?

Palestinian Jews.

believing is not enough. Working hard and believing might be. What happened to the Palestinian people is undoubtedly unfair but complaining won't get you far, revenge and violence won't get you far either. We, the Arab world, have to get our house in order first before lecturing Israel on how it should behave. When there are so many unfair and unjust things that go on in our world, from discrimination, inequality, corruption, to hypocrisy. We have to fix what is wrong in our countries first, become stronger and then fight. Emotion won't get you far, it is one component but definitely not the entire recipe for success.

things havent changed yet

I might disagree with some points in there .. as you cant really call people hypocrites although I believe most are .. but this is not a general form … I like the rational tone though ..