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Why I’m Against Annuling the Treaty With Israel

January 3, 2009 206 Comments

Disclaimer: Before making a comment, bear in mind that I am an avid supporter of the Palestinian cause. I have not been “washed away” by Israeli propaganda nor can I begin to explain my fury and frustration at what is going on in Gaza right now.

Written By Farah Nimri

I was reluctant to speak about this at first, because of all the vicious fights that I’ve observed around the blogosphere whenever this subject is discussed. But I’m putting my opinion out there so people can see the other side of the equation. The other opinion, that everybody I’ve met seems to be terrified to disclose.

I am very much against the annulment of the Jordanian-Israeli peace treaty, the closure of the Israeli embassy or the expulsion of the ambassador, and I cannot see what good it could possibly achieve or contribute in ending the massacre the Palestinians are currently facing.

Here’s the thing. I understand the feelings of frustration and anger, I really do. I understand the feeling of helplessness that takes over you as you see the lives of over 400 people – 400 human beings just like you and me – being taken away in a place not so far from what we call home. I understand how the Arab nation feels like something has to be done, something needs to be done, so that we stop feeling so inferior to the rest of the world, to do something after being persecuted for so many years. I understand that it was OUR land to begin with, and that the Israelis were the ones who came here and unrightfully took over what’s not theirs. I understand all of that.

But here’s what I also understand. This dreaded treaty between us and the Israelis, the treaty that protests have been calling to annul for at least three times (that I can remember), is what’s preventing the Israelis from starting a war with us. I honestly don’t understand those who want to go into “war” and start a “jihad” against the Israelis. We are a country of 5 million, we have very few resources, and to put it simply and clearly, there’s no way in hell we can win a war against Israel. The reason Jordan has remained quite a safe country (considering the fact that we live in a war zone), is not exactly a miracle. It’s because we’ve accepted the presence of the Jewish nation as a fact and let’s face it, it’s not going to go away anytime soon, and if you think otherwise, you are either impacted by your emotions, or grossly overestimate the abilities of the very country you’re criticizing.

And this is why I can’t support the riots that have been breaking out all over the place. I couldn’t be more angry about what’s happening, but I frankly think you’re a hypocrite if you tell me you’re willing to sacrifice your freedom and safety to go into a battle, to go into a war, that you KNOW there’s no way you can win. I like the fact that I live in a safe, secure country, where I can go about my daily life without fear of having my house brought down over my head.

This doesn’t mean we’ve given up. I’m not giving up. I make my voice heard to let the people around the world, who aren’t being told the whole story, know that a massacre is taking place. There are other ways we can fight this war, and sacrificing this country is not one of them. We’ve done that once before and lost. We’d just be hitting the self-destruct button.

EDITORS’ NOTE: We would like to note that while 7iber encourages and welcomes all forms of debate, however sensitive the topic may be, it DOES NOT sanction any conversation that is laden with disrespectful language. Please find a way to get your point across without attacking others or their beliefs. Also, please keep it clean: profanity does not strengthen one’s argument.

Thank you.

caise

Ahmed, Hamas didnt bring this attack on Palestinians by virtue of its presence at the helm or by launching missles. Israel had this attack planned six months ago, and actually escalated violence before this when Hamas stopped firing rockets (See Gush Shalom’s reporting of this).

Israel has been tormenting the people of Gaza since its inception, Hamas or no Hamas. militant resistance or not. This is part of Israel’s plan to make the Palestinians leave. The writing on the wall has been clear since Vladimir Jabotinsky published his infamous tract, “The Iron Wall,” the real Israeli “security doctrine”–a paper you should read if you want to understand the policies of the state of Israel.
caise

Rami, dont spout your anti-Arab racism under the guise of civility. People, whether the Muslim brotherhood or westerners, have the right to oppose a bad government, such as the Hashemites. Is this right only reserved to people with white skin color and coming from Europe? When they do this, it is called democracy. When Arabs express opposition, in your terms, they live in the “dark ages”?
caise

Rami, dont spout your anti-Arab racism under the guise of civility. People, whether the Muslim brotherhood or westerners, have the right to oppose a bad government, such as the Hashemites. Is this right only reserved to people with white skin color and coming from Europe? When they do this, it is called democracy. When Arabs express opposition, in your terms, they live in the “dark ages”?
http://www.alidahmash.blogspot.com/ Ali

Actualy Israel doesn’t need to fight is, they’d rather send us all the Palestinias they have to Jordan and this country has always had close ties with Israel for the past 60 years, so who are we kidding here.

But I don’t call for cutting the ties for one reason. All the donations from this country, Syria, lebanon and others are going to Gaza thru the Hashemite Donations commitee, so cutting the ties will stop the aid from reaching Palestinians.

Lets play it smart
http://www.alidahmash.blogspot.com Ali

Actualy Israel doesn’t need to fight is, they’d rather send us all the Palestinias they have to Jordan and this country has always had close ties with Israel for the past 60 years, so who are we kidding here.

But I don’t call for cutting the ties for one reason. All the donations from this country, Syria, lebanon and others are going to Gaza thru the Hashemite Donations commitee, so cutting the ties will stop the aid from reaching Palestinians.

Lets play it smart
Ayda

“All the donations from this country, Syria, lebanon and others are going to Gaza thru the Hashemite Donations commitee”

Ali, That’s somewhat inaccurate. the over 90% of humanitarian aid to Gaza still goes through UNRWA and United Palestinian Appeal and other international recognized organizations not blacklisted by Israel. The Hashimite Humanitarian donations are very minuscule in comparison. Not for the lack of compassion, but UNRWA and UPA have always had a vast network of donors.

You can send money to UNRWA and UPA and kick the Israeli ambassador at the same time.

So please don’t use the aid to Gaza as an excuse to justify keeping the Israeli embassy open.
Ayda

“All the donations from this country, Syria, lebanon and others are going to Gaza thru the Hashemite Donations commitee”

Ali, That’s somewhat inaccurate. the over 90% of humanitarian aid to Gaza still goes through UNRWA and United Palestinian Appeal and other international recognized organizations not blacklisted by Israel. The Hashimite Humanitarian donations are very minuscule in comparison. Not for the lack of compassion, but UNRWA and UPA have always had a vast network of donors.

You can send money to UNRWA and UPA and kick the Israeli ambassador at the same time.

So please don’t use the aid to Gaza as an excuse to justify keeping the Israeli embassy open.
Eyad HAmam

suspeding economic and diplomatic relations doesn’t mean we’re going to war with them. It does however put more pressure on Israel to end it’s attack. of course if we do that, we risk losing US aid. That’s our biggest risk, not Israeli bombs.
Eyad HAmam

suspeding economic and diplomatic relations doesn’t mean we’re going to war with them. It does however put more pressure on Israel to end it’s attack. of course if we do that, we risk losing US aid. That’s our biggest risk, not Israeli bombs.
Ola

“of course if we do that, we risk losing US aid.”

this aid of course is important to the regime since little of it makes it to Jordanians but the bulk of it goes to state security to protect israel’s borders and the regime and to keep the Palestinian refugees under tights control.

that’s the danger of not having a democracy. you have to constantly obey your masters instead of listening to your people. this is why Iran and Cuba and Venezuelan and other weaker South American countries can stand up to thugs and gangsters like the US, because these countries derive their strength form their people. That’s why Gazans can withstand the zionist onslaught. They have chosen the path of resistance by electing Hamas, when they realized the peace process became another strategic weapon for Israel against the palestinains and a mere source of income for Fatah thugs.
Ola

“of course if we do that, we risk losing US aid.”

this aid of course is important to the regime since little of it makes it to Jordanians but the bulk of it goes to state security to protect israel’s borders and the regime and to keep the Palestinian refugees under tights control.

that’s the danger of not having a democracy. you have to constantly obey your masters instead of listening to your people. this is why Iran and Cuba and Venezuelan and other weaker South American countries can stand up to thugs and gangsters like the US, because these countries derive their strength form their people. That’s why Gazans can withstand the zionist onslaught. They have chosen the path of resistance by electing Hamas, when they realized the peace process became another strategic weapon for Israel against the palestinains and a mere source of income for Fatah thugs.
http://www.black-iris.com/ Naseem Tarawnah

Emad:

I can’t believe you posted this article at this time? You could have posted an article to call for the support and prayers that Gaza needs…What you guys are saying: Let Gaza fight Israel and we will send them milk.

7iber is a non-partisan platform that allows for all voices to be heard in the Jordanian sphere, as they have a right to be. We don’t pick and choose posts. People submit content and we post it for them. It is that simple.

Ayda:

over 90% of humanitarian aid to Gaza still goes through UNRWA and United Palestinian Appeal and other international recognized organizations not blacklisted by Israel.

Actually, all donations in this part of the world go through Jordan. That is a fact. The Hashemite Charity Commission is the only body allowed to have convoys physically cross over the body. Once they do, there is indeed cooperation with UNRWA, but it is the commission that comes to them.

This is not in defense of the keeping the israeli ambassador here. I’m merely clarifying a few facts. If the border with Israel was closed, you (or rather Gazans) would quickly discover just how “minuscule” those donations really are.

Thanks
http://www.black-iris.com Naseem Tarawnah

Emad:

I can’t believe you posted this article at this time? You could have posted an article to call for the support and prayers that Gaza needs…What you guys are saying: Let Gaza fight Israel and we will send them milk.

7iber is a non-partisan platform that allows for all voices to be heard in the Jordanian sphere, as they have a right to be. We don’t pick and choose posts. People submit content and we post it for them. It is that simple.

Ayda:

over 90% of humanitarian aid to Gaza still goes through UNRWA and United Palestinian Appeal and other international recognized organizations not blacklisted by Israel.

Actually, all donations in this part of the world go through Jordan. That is a fact. The Hashemite Charity Commission is the only body allowed to have convoys physically cross over the body. Once they do, there is indeed cooperation with UNRWA, but it is the commission that comes to them.

This is not in defense of the keeping the israeli ambassador here. I’m merely clarifying a few facts. If the border with Israel was closed, you (or rather Gazans) would quickly discover just how “minuscule” those donations really are.

Thanks
TalalaT

>>> The Hashemite Charity Commission is the only body allowed to have convoys physically cross over the body.

Ahhhmm! that makes the charity a conduit not a fund. there is a difference between providing logistics and providing the goods. Over 90%of the goods are UNRWA and UPA.

But whomever Israel selects as its trusted logistics partner is a security and PR decision and not a humanitarian one. nor should we reward it or turn it into some holy grail in defense of an unholy alliance between the Jordanian regime and Israel. I think this point has been explained above by Maha. It’s the Jordanian people that should be thanked.

And if Jordan stopped sending trucks, Egypt or some other third party will.

we should not leave it up to Israel to decide who is the good Arab and who is a bad Arab simply by letting one in with the tuna cans and shutting the other out.

Kudos to the Jordanian people and to their undeniable passion for supporting the Palestinians. I wish if I can hug each and every one of them.
TalalaT

>>> The Hashemite Charity Commission is the only body allowed to have convoys physically cross over the body.

Ahhhmm! that makes the charity a conduit not a fund. there is a difference between providing logistics and providing the goods. Over 90%of the goods are UNRWA and UPA.

But whomever Israel selects as its trusted logistics partner is a security and PR decision and not a humanitarian one. nor should we reward it or turn it into some holy grail in defense of an unholy alliance between the Jordanian regime and Israel. I think this point has been explained above by Maha. It’s the Jordanian people that should be thanked.

And if Jordan stopped sending trucks, Egypt or some other third party will.

we should not leave it up to Israel to decide who is the good Arab and who is a bad Arab simply by letting one in with the tuna cans and shutting the other out.

Kudos to the Jordanian people and to their undeniable passion for supporting the Palestinians. I wish if I can hug each and every one of them.
TalalaT

>>> 7iber is a non-partisan platform that allows for all voices to be heard in the Jordanian sphere

Would you allow an article calling for the overthrow of the Egyptian or other Arab regimes? No you won’t. So please stop using this silly excuse. You chose articles you like and you exclude those you don’t like. And that’s fair. It’s your blog. but spare us the lame justifications.
TalalaT

>>> 7iber is a non-partisan platform that allows for all voices to be heard in the Jordanian sphere

Would you allow an article calling for the overthrow of the Egyptian or other Arab regimes? No you won’t. So please stop using this silly excuse. You chose articles you like and you exclude those you don’t like. And that’s fair. It’s your blog. but spare us the lame justifications.
Dörte

“remember the….”
Kamo, it seems I’ve got a better memory than you. Remember Lucy somewhere in East Africa? Her descendants spread all over the world even to remote places like Jerusalem or New Zealand. If you put the holiness of any bit of soil above the holiness of human life, I’d better not comment that, because I don’t want to use indecent language. Got that?
Dörte

“remember the….”
Kamo, it seems I’ve got a better memory than you. Remember Lucy somewhere in East Africa? Her descendants spread all over the world even to remote places like Jerusalem or New Zealand. If you put the holiness of any bit of soil above the holiness of human life, I’d better not comment that, because I don’t want to use indecent language. Got that?
Shooz

“If you put the holiness of any bit of soil above the holiness of human life, I’d better not comment that”

Dorte: This is typical israeli doublespeak. Have your forgotten your own comment just few lines above about jewish state? When it suits youm God talks to you and promises you real state and we must accept that. when it does not, you are a secular person who speaks about human rights and human life. Is this unintentional or just a knee-jerk Zionist deception? Do you realize how hypocritical you come across when you say in your first post you say “there is a jewish state” and we have to accept it then you turn around and denounce those who “put the holiness of any bit of soil above the holiness of human life”…do you realize how freaky you sound when you tell in our face that we have to accept a Jewish state and then few lines later you denounce religion. When the world accepts a White state in South Africa, we will accept a Jewish state in our midst that was built on the misery of non-Jews. So long as there are refugee camps and millions of non-jewish refugees, Israel’s Jewishness will stand as a testimony to the vulgarity of the idea of Zionism. You may put the gun to our heads and force us to accept that for now. And we will because we are weak. but it’s a matter of time before we send you packing too. We will tolerate only a secular democracy for all It’s citizen, or get ready to get lost.
Shooz

“If you put the holiness of any bit of soil above the holiness of human life, I’d better not comment that”

Dorte: This is typical israeli doublespeak. Have your forgotten your own comment just few lines above about jewish state? When it suits youm God talks to you and promises you real state and we must accept that. when it does not, you are a secular person who speaks about human rights and human life. Is this unintentional or just a knee-jerk Zionist deception? Do you realize how hypocritical you come across when you say in your first post you say “there is a jewish state” and we have to accept it then you turn around and denounce those who “put the holiness of any bit of soil above the holiness of human life”…do you realize how freaky you sound when you tell in our face that we have to accept a Jewish state and then few lines later you denounce religion. When the world accepts a White state in South Africa, we will accept a Jewish state in our midst that was built on the misery of non-Jews. So long as there are refugee camps and millions of non-jewish refugees, Israel’s Jewishness will stand as a testimony to the vulgarity of the idea of Zionism. You may put the gun to our heads and force us to accept that for now. And we will because we are weak. but it’s a matter of time before we send you packing too. We will tolerate only a secular democracy for all It’s citizen, or get ready to get lost.
joe

I am beside myself.
Bravo to Maha and Laila.

Being a jordanian born , and new york raised…I jumped on the chance when it came to visit jordan as an adult for the very first time since leaving as a 6 year old child.
On the journey to jordan, i couldnt help but constantly judge every single jordanian i came across.
I judged my fellow people as being enslaved mindless robots.
“How can these inbred people accept this way of life” i always told myself throughout my entire visit in jordan.

Back in New York, everyone who asked me about my trip, , ” tell me about jordan through your eyes” they would say….and I would say:

What a bunch of dumb enslaved mindless human beings. They never question anything told to them….they accept ” getting the shaft ” and they thank the person who gives them the shaft.

They accept the fact that they cant have their own identities. Everyone you see is a clone of the other….Its a marketer’s wet dream!

Their is no indivisual creativity amongst themselves. What ever is given to them, they gladly accept. To them, a prson of so called ” prestige” as such a doctor,pharmacist…can literally take advantage of anyone and get away with it…OUT IN THE OPEN!

They accept that their forced to spend their entire lives studying for a career to which they can never pursue. 35 years old, with a million degree’s, just to drive a cab…or sell fugoose.
No one I met in jordan was happy. NO ONE.
The youth are forced into homosexuality and lesbian relationships….the opposite sex cant trust each other out of fear of blackmail from some jackass with a cell phone camera..The adults think its okay to be treated like crap throughout any local or state governmental agency…and the old folks just cant wait to die, and blame their miserable lives on god.
” this is what god wants” they say. I told myself I would NEVER visit jordan EVER.
Basic laws are not enforced! Motorists do as they please. Cops are busy trying to get bribes…sexual favors from girls…AND guys…I HAVE NO WORDS TO DESCRIBE MY THOUGHTS ABOUT JORDAN…seeing it thropugh a new yorker’s point of view.

I really wanted to buy a condo…or land and build myself a summer home their in jordan, thinking it does the country good if us expatriots come back to our ” motherland” .. injecting entrprenuership creativity, contributing to jordan society but all i kept getting from jordan was ” were a dumb breed, we enjoy getting the shaft just as long as we have our cigerettes and coffee.
With all due respect to religion..RELIGION CANT FEED YOU.
The constant calls to prayer in jordan is rediculous. Why do the jordanians continue to allow these religious figures to abuse their clerical status for the continuing of mindless enslavemen. Peopl of religon dont need to be constantly harrassed by the clerics. The know whats right from wrong..and let them be, let them grow as a society.
Being labled ” the messeehi” really didnt faze me…until i startd getting spatted on while taking strolls in Irbed and the surrounding communities.

Laila and Maha, Well written, highly intellignt, simple yet powerful…and RAW REALITY.

I love it. Ill fight next to you both any day, for any cause that will free th jordan people.
joe

I am beside myself.
Bravo to Maha and Laila.

Being a jordanian born , and new york raised…I jumped on the chance when it came to visit jordan as an adult for the very first time since leaving as a 6 year old child.
On the journey to jordan, i couldnt help but constantly judge every single jordanian i came across.
I judged my fellow people as being enslaved mindless robots.
“How can these inbred people accept this way of life” i always told myself throughout my entire visit in jordan.

Back in New York, everyone who asked me about my trip, , ” tell me about jordan through your eyes” they would say….and I would say:

What a bunch of dumb enslaved mindless human beings. They never question anything told to them….they accept ” getting the shaft ” and they thank the person who gives them the shaft.

They accept the fact that they cant have their own identities. Everyone you see is a clone of the other….Its a marketer’s wet dream!

Their is no indivisual creativity amongst themselves. What ever is given to them, they gladly accept. To them, a prson of so called ” prestige” as such a doctor,pharmacist…can literally take advantage of anyone and get away with it…OUT IN THE OPEN!

They accept that their forced to spend their entire lives studying for a career to which they can never pursue. 35 years old, with a million degree’s, just to drive a cab…or sell fugoose.
No one I met in jordan was happy. NO ONE.
The youth are forced into homosexuality and lesbian relationships….the opposite sex cant trust each other out of fear of blackmail from some jackass with a cell phone camera..The adults think its okay to be treated like crap throughout any local or state governmental agency…and the old folks just cant wait to die, and blame their miserable lives on god.
” this is what god wants” they say. I told myself I would NEVER visit jordan EVER.
Basic laws are not enforced! Motorists do as they please. Cops are busy trying to get bribes…sexual favors from girls…AND guys…I HAVE NO WORDS TO DESCRIBE MY THOUGHTS ABOUT JORDAN…seeing it thropugh a new yorker’s point of view.

I really wanted to buy a condo…or land and build myself a summer home their in jordan, thinking it does the country good if us expatriots come back to our ” motherland” .. injecting entrprenuership creativity, contributing to jordan society but all i kept getting from jordan was ” were a dumb breed, we enjoy getting the shaft just as long as we have our cigerettes and coffee.
With all due respect to religion..RELIGION CANT FEED YOU.
The constant calls to prayer in jordan is rediculous. Why do the jordanians continue to allow these religious figures to abuse their clerical status for the continuing of mindless enslavemen. Peopl of religon dont need to be constantly harrassed by the clerics. The know whats right from wrong..and let them be, let them grow as a society.
Being labled ” the messeehi” really didnt faze me…until i startd getting spatted on while taking strolls in Irbed and the surrounding communities.

Laila and Maha, Well written, highly intellignt, simple yet powerful…and RAW REALITY.

I love it. Ill fight next to you both any day, for any cause that will free th jordan people.
Najwan

Rami, I resent you describing those who resist colonialism as living in the dark ages and as Muslim fanatics. You seem to have forgotten that many of the anti-colonialist demonstrators in world capitals including the tens of thousands of demonstrators in London and Paris are mostly Christians not Muslims.

Furthermore, don’t you think the term “dark ages” applies to a people and a country, Israel, that they say was promised to them by their God? And did you forget that most Christian fundamentalist supporters of Israel believe that Israel must be victorious for the Messiah to arrive. And wasn’t it in the dark ages that kings burned and pillaged whole villages for the mistakes of few. Does Gaza and Lebanon and the Israeli bloody attack which left hundreds of murdered civilians because 4 or 5 jews were killed, doesn’t that remind you of any dark ages?

Think before you speak.
Najwan

Rami, I resent you describing those who resist colonialism as living in the dark ages and as Muslim fanatics. You seem to have forgotten that many of the anti-colonialist demonstrators in world capitals including the tens of thousands of demonstrators in London and Paris are mostly Christians not Muslims.

Furthermore, don’t you think the term “dark ages” applies to a people and a country, Israel, that they say was promised to them by their God? And did you forget that most Christian fundamentalist supporters of Israel believe that Israel must be victorious for the Messiah to arrive. And wasn’t it in the dark ages that kings burned and pillaged whole villages for the mistakes of few. Does Gaza and Lebanon and the Israeli bloody attack which left hundreds of murdered civilians because 4 or 5 jews were killed, doesn’t that remind you of any dark ages?

Think before you speak.
http://ad-noctum.blogspot.com/ Tamim

“[The treaty] is what’s preventing the Israelis from starting a war with us”.
Ok let’s ponder this statement for a moment. The last armed conflict between us and the Israelis was sometime in the 70’s (if I remember correctly), the treaty was signed in 1994, there is a 25 years gap, why didn’t they start a war with us during that time!? The treaty has nothing to do with stopping them from attacking us, face it. Probably what is stopping them from attacking us is that it’s financially unfeasible, or that everything they need from Jordan is secured by the treaty; security, water rations, etc …
“We are a country of 5 million”
Get the facts straight we’re 6,198,677 (Wikipedia) and Israel is 7,282,0002, so what’s your point!?
“We’ve done that once before and lost. We’d just be hitting the self-destruct button”
So if you failed from the first time you give up!!? So what we failed once! You learn from your mistakes, and you try again.
Let’s check a few battles in ancient and modern history:
a. Battle of Thermopylae
b. Battle of Marathon
c. Battle of Cannae
d. Battle of Austerlitz
e. D-Day
f. Al Karamah Battle
g. Al Samoo3 Battle
h. Al Yarmouk Battle
i. Al Qadisiyya Battle
You know what’s in common in all these battles!!? They’re share a fact that the victorious side was outnumbered and had lesser weapons. These are battles that shaped the world.
Numbers and Weapons are aiding factors but they do not win battles, courage and spirit do.
You make your own research and see how many smaller armies throughout history defeated stronger better equipped armies.
“I like the fact that I live in a safe, secure country, where I can go about my daily life without fear of having my house brought down over my head”
Are you happy you live without dignity!!? Were your brothers and sisters are slaughtered and humiliated daily. Let’s face a big fact, Palestine is an occupied country, West bank is an occupied Jordanian territory (check the history books if you want to), in such situations, things like personal needs and aspirations take lower priority than the country’s need. As JFK once said:
“Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.”
When the Nazi’s started their invasion of Russia, Russian people didn’t surrender and give their territory to the Invading force so they can live happily, instead they fought and gave “23,100,000” (TWENTY THREE MILLION) lives, so that the next generation can live with dignity.
So did the Vietnamese people, they didn’t accept to divide Vietnam to north and south Vietnam and give the south to the Americans and make a peace treaty, they fought and won their dignified independence.
We can win if we believe so.
http://ad-noctum.blogspot.com Tamim

“[The treaty] is what’s preventing the Israelis from starting a war with us”.
Ok let’s ponder this statement for a moment. The last armed conflict between us and the Israelis was sometime in the 70’s (if I remember correctly), the treaty was signed in 1994, there is a 25 years gap, why didn’t they start a war with us during that time!? The treaty has nothing to do with stopping them from attacking us, face it. Probably what is stopping them from attacking us is that it’s financially unfeasible, or that everything they need from Jordan is secured by the treaty; security, water rations, etc …
“We are a country of 5 million”
Get the facts straight we’re 6,198,677 (Wikipedia) and Israel is 7,282,0002, so what’s your point!?
“We’ve done that once before and lost. We’d just be hitting the self-destruct button”
So if you failed from the first time you give up!!? So what we failed once! You learn from your mistakes, and you try again.
Let’s check a few battles in ancient and modern history:
a. Battle of Thermopylae
b. Battle of Marathon
c. Battle of Cannae
d. Battle of Austerlitz
e. D-Day
f. Al Karamah Battle
g. Al Samoo3 Battle
h. Al Yarmouk Battle
i. Al Qadisiyya Battle
You know what’s in common in all these battles!!? They’re share a fact that the victorious side was outnumbered and had lesser weapons. These are battles that shaped the world.
Numbers and Weapons are aiding factors but they do not win battles, courage and spirit do.
You make your own research and see how many smaller armies throughout history defeated stronger better equipped armies.
“I like the fact that I live in a safe, secure country, where I can go about my daily life without fear of having my house brought down over my head”
Are you happy you live without dignity!!? Were your brothers and sisters are slaughtered and humiliated daily. Let’s face a big fact, Palestine is an occupied country, West bank is an occupied Jordanian territory (check the history books if you want to), in such situations, things like personal needs and aspirations take lower priority than the country’s need. As JFK once said:
“Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.”
When the Nazi’s started their invasion of Russia, Russian people didn’t surrender and give their territory to the Invading force so they can live happily, instead they fought and gave “23,100,000” (TWENTY THREE MILLION) lives, so that the next generation can live with dignity.
So did the Vietnamese people, they didn’t accept to divide Vietnam to north and south Vietnam and give the south to the Americans and make a peace treaty, they fought and won their dignified independence.
We can win if we believe so.
http://www.black-iris.com/ Naseem Tarawnah

“Ahhhmm! that makes the charity a conduit not a fund. there is a difference between providing logistics and providing the goods. Over 90%of the goods are UNRWA and UPA.”

I never said it was a fund. You can argue the semantics all you like, but there is only one way to get across the border and if you think that if Jordan stopped suddenly Egypt or Lebanon would be allowed to do it then you are sadly mistaken. As for 90%, I’d be interested in seeing where you got that number from. Because if the tonage of stuff the Jordanian people are sending is only 10%, then Gaza is doing pretty decently.

Would you allow an article calling for the overthrow of the Egyptian or other Arab regimes? No you won’t. So please stop using this silly excuse. You chose articles you like and you exclude those you don’t like. And that’s fair. It’s your blog. but spare us the lame justifications.

As long as people frame their opinion pieces with actual arguments as opposed to emotive slogans, then it’s all good.

In fact, someone has just sent us a piece countering this one and arguing on the opposite side and it will be posted shortly.

So please, before you jump to conclusions please recognize that this site is based on user-generated content. We don’t pick and choose people’s submissions based on whether we agree or disagree with their arguments.

Thanks
http://www.black-iris.com Naseem Tarawnah

“Ahhhmm! that makes the charity a conduit not a fund. there is a difference between providing logistics and providing the goods. Over 90%of the goods are UNRWA and UPA.”

I never said it was a fund. You can argue the semantics all you like, but there is only one way to get across the border and if you think that if Jordan stopped suddenly Egypt or Lebanon would be allowed to do it then you are sadly mistaken. As for 90%, I’d be interested in seeing where you got that number from. Because if the tonage of stuff the Jordanian people are sending is only 10%, then Gaza is doing pretty decently.

Would you allow an article calling for the overthrow of the Egyptian or other Arab regimes? No you won’t. So please stop using this silly excuse. You chose articles you like and you exclude those you don’t like. And that’s fair. It’s your blog. but spare us the lame justifications.

As long as people frame their opinion pieces with actual arguments as opposed to emotive slogans, then it’s all good.

In fact, someone has just sent us a piece countering this one and arguing on the opposite side and it will be posted shortly.

So please, before you jump to conclusions please recognize that this site is based on user-generated content. We don’t pick and choose people’s submissions based on whether we agree or disagree with their arguments.

Thanks
http://www.thescatterload.com/ Hamzeh N.

This is the worst argument that could possibly be made in support of continuing diplomatic relations between Jordan and Israel at this time. To tell those that demand help from your government by a certain form of action, that you would rather that your government not oblige because you are afraid of what suffering that might cause to you is the worst thing that you can say.

You could have simply said that cutting diplomatic relations would not help the situation in Gaza a bit because it wouldn’t result in any less missiles landing in the city and around it, and that on the contrary, it would lead to more suffering because it would jeopardize the movement of aid from Jordan into the Gaza strip (which of course has to go through land controlled by Israel).

Regards.
http://www.thescatterload.com Hamzeh N.

This is the worst argument that could possibly be made in support of continuing diplomatic relations between Jordan and Israel at this time. To tell those that demand help from your government by a certain form of action, that you would rather that your government not oblige because you are afraid of what suffering that might cause to you is the worst thing that you can say.

You could have simply said that cutting diplomatic relations would not help the situation in Gaza a bit because it wouldn’t result in any less missiles landing in the city and around it, and that on the contrary, it would lead to more suffering because it would jeopardize the movement of aid from Jordan into the Gaza strip (which of course has to go through land controlled by Israel).

Regards.
Emad

Farah,

Please explain what do you mean by saying: “I honestly don’t understand those who want to go into “war” and start a “jihad” against the Israelis.”

Please define Jihad?

Each time I go back to this Post and read some of the comments I feel worst than seeing the Israeli’s killing our children… Shame on us for being as ignorant as some of the opinions here.
Emad

Farah,

Please explain what do you mean by saying: “I honestly don’t understand those who want to go into “war” and start a “jihad” against the Israelis.”

Please define Jihad?

Each time I go back to this Post and read some of the comments I feel worst than seeing the Israeli’s killing our children… Shame on us for being as ignorant as some of the opinions here.
Tarallala

“cutting diplomatic relations with israel would not help the situation in Gaza a bit because it wouldn’t result in any less missiles landing”

Hamza N, next time one of your loved one passes away we will not show up at the funeral because it will not bring them from the dead. And next time you have a serious illness we will not visit you because it will not heal the disease, but we will send you a can of hommous and a blanket.

You are Israel’s best friend. an arab with no regard for arab life. an arab with no dignity. you probable have no close friends and care for no one. You have all the qualifications you need to be a star in Jordan’s government.
Tarallala

“cutting diplomatic relations with israel would not help the situation in Gaza a bit because it wouldn’t result in any less missiles landing”

Hamza N, next time one of your loved one passes away we will not show up at the funeral because it will not bring them from the dead. And next time you have a serious illness we will not visit you because it will not heal the disease, but we will send you a can of hommous and a blanket.

You are Israel’s best friend. an arab with no regard for arab life. an arab with no dignity. you probable have no close friends and care for no one. You have all the qualifications you need to be a star in Jordan’s government.
http://www.jordanian-observations.blogspot.com/ Farah

I was going to refrain from participating in the debate due to the uncivilized nature I feel the debate has taken. So many arguments have been presented, some of them very convincing, and I cannot address all of them, but there are some points I would like to clarify.

The treaty may not be in the best interest of Jordan economically or in other aspects, but the state of security of a country, is in my opinion the most important. I don’t think that annulling the treaty would automatically start a war, but from what we’re seeing now, Israel does not exactly play by the rules, and seeing as we don’t have the resources matching the country next door to us, the pragmatic solution is to have a peace agreement between the two. Now if annulling the treaty could have had a hand in ending the atrocities committed, it would’ve been a viable option, and I would be the first to support it. But it wouldn’t, it is an expression of resentment, which again, I understand, but don’t think it would be worth jeopardizing the safety of the country for. Not to mention it’s a huge step back in the peace process that is desperately needed in this region.

This is not a Palestinian-Jordanian issue at hand, as some commentators somehow assumed I meant. It’s a humanitarian issue. When more than 400 people are being slaughtered cold-bloodedly, it’s a violation of all human rights. Not Palestinian or Jordanian rights. Just human rights.

Emad, I simply meant going into war. The choice of words stemmed from recent discussions using this phrase. I don’t want to repeat myself on why I don’t believe in such a solution but I will say this: believing in yourself, learning from your mistakes and having faith: these are all very noble ideas, but if we don’t have the means to back them up (military or otherwise) it’s useless. And it’s not selfish not to engage in something that is bound to fail. It’s realistic.

In the end, this is an opinion article and a difference in opinion is to be expected. I was presenting the other side of the argument that is not being discussed. I am not in any way belittling the massacre the people in Gaza are going through, but it shouldn’t mean that we need to put on blindfolds and follow the masses in whatever they say or demand.

May god help those in Gaza, may we see an end to these atrocities soon enough and thank you all for your comments.
http://www.jordanian-observations.blogspot.com/ Farah

I was going to refrain from participating in the debate due to the uncivilized nature I feel the debate has taken. So many arguments have been presented, some of them very convincing, and I cannot address all of them, but there are some points I would like to clarify.

The treaty may not be in the best interest of Jordan economically or in other aspects, but the state of security of a country, is in my opinion the most important. I don’t think that annulling the treaty would automatically start a war, but from what we’re seeing now, Israel does not exactly play by the rules, and seeing as we don’t have the resources matching the country next door to us, the pragmatic solution is to have a peace agreement between the two. Now if annulling the treaty could have had a hand in ending the atrocities committed, it would’ve been a viable option, and I would be the first to support it. But it wouldn’t, it is an expression of resentment, which again, I understand, but don’t think it would be worth jeopardizing the safety of the country for. Not to mention it’s a huge step back in the peace process that is desperately needed in this region.

This is not a Palestinian-Jordanian issue at hand, as some commentators somehow assumed I meant. It’s a humanitarian issue. When more than 400 people are being slaughtered cold-bloodedly, it’s a violation of all human rights. Not Palestinian or Jordanian rights. Just human rights.

Emad, I simply meant going into war. The choice of words stemmed from recent discussions using this phrase. I don’t want to repeat myself on why I don’t believe in such a solution but I will say this: believing in yourself, learning from your mistakes and having faith: these are all very noble ideas, but if we don’t have the means to back them up (military or otherwise) it’s useless. And it’s not selfish not to engage in something that is bound to fail. It’s realistic.

In the end, this is an opinion article and a difference in opinion is to be expected. I was presenting the other side of the argument that is not being discussed. I am not in any way belittling the massacre the people in Gaza are going through, but it shouldn’t mean that we need to put on blindfolds and follow the masses in whatever they say or demand.

May god help those in Gaza, may we see an end to these atrocities soon enough and thank you all for your comments.
Emad

Naseem

You said: “7iber is a non-partisan platform that allows for all voices to be heard in the Jordanian sphere, as they have a right to be. We don’t pick and choose posts. People submit content and we post it for them. It is that simple.”

I would like to post an article. Please tell me how?
Emad

Naseem

You said: “7iber is a non-partisan platform that allows for all voices to be heard in the Jordanian sphere, as they have a right to be. We don’t pick and choose posts. People submit content and we post it for them. It is that simple.”

I would like to post an article. Please tell me how?
http://www.black-iris.com/ Naseem Tarawnah

Emad: all materials are sent to editor@7iber.com
http://www.black-iris.com Naseem Tarawnah

Emad: all materials are sent to editor@7iber.com
http://www.thescatterload.com/ Hamzeh N.

Tarallala, your funeral analogy simply doesn’t fit. No where in my comment did I say that Jordanians should not offer their condolences and sympathies to the loss of lives among their Palestinian brothers (which is what funerals are for). Yet, that is the impression your analogy produces.

Your sickness analogy also doesn’t fit for the same reason, but on top of that it was deliberately sabotaged by your rhetoric. You deliberately used the term “a can of homous” instead of any type of medicine, because had you chosen medicine instead (which is the natural form of aid to offer the sick), it would have made my argument stronger: sending aid into Gaza from Jordan would actually help the Palestinians in this time of need.

Your last paragraph is nothing but a tired exercise in throwing labels and judgments based on nothing but emotions. Anyone who has participated in online debates long enough would tell you that this achieves nothing but irritate your readers, which is hardly the goal of any constructive comment. I assume, out of good faith, that you were trying to be constructive here.
http://www.thescatterload.com Hamzeh N.

Tarallala, your funeral analogy simply doesn’t fit. No where in my comment did I say that Jordanians should not offer their condolences and sympathies to the loss of lives among their Palestinian brothers (which is what funerals are for). Yet, that is the impression your analogy produces.

Your sickness analogy also doesn’t fit for the same reason, but on top of that it was deliberately sabotaged by your rhetoric. You deliberately used the term “a can of homous” instead of any type of medicine, because had you chosen medicine instead (which is the natural form of aid to offer the sick), it would have made my argument stronger: sending aid into Gaza from Jordan would actually help the Palestinians in this time of need.

Your last paragraph is nothing but a tired exercise in throwing labels and judgments based on nothing but emotions. Anyone who has participated in online debates long enough would tell you that this achieves nothing but irritate your readers, which is hardly the goal of any constructive comment. I assume, out of good faith, that you were trying to be constructive here.
Tarallala

Hamza N, my last comment was not a serious one, sorry you could not tell a tongue in cheek
comment from a serious one. still thanks for taking the time to comment ;)

on a more serious note, i think it’s not nice to keep using the plight of the palestinains to justify a non-response to Israeli brutality. It’s cynical and callous.

You could care less for aid to Gaza. you just think it’s a smart argument in an online debate, as evident from your debate tips to your ideological comrade, Farah. That does not make you a nice guy, just a cynical one.

I also have bad news for you. yesterday, PM Dahabi said Jordan’s relations with Israel will be reconsidered. I guess he must be an emotional, irrational, impulsive type, unlike you the calculating, indifferent type.
Tarallala

Hamza N, my last comment was not a serious one, sorry you could not tell a tongue in cheek
comment from a serious one. still thanks for taking the time to comment ;)

on a more serious note, i think it’s not nice to keep using the plight of the palestinains to justify a non-response to Israeli brutality. It’s cynical and callous.

You could care less for aid to Gaza. you just think it’s a smart argument in an online debate, as evident from your debate tips to your ideological comrade, Farah. That does not make you a nice guy, just a cynical one.

I also have bad news for you. yesterday, PM Dahabi said Jordan’s relations with Israel will be reconsidered. I guess he must be an emotional, irrational, impulsive type, unlike you the calculating, indifferent type.
Karam

>>> but it shouldn’t mean that we need to put on blindfolds and follow the masses in whatever they say or demand.

but it shouldn’t also mean that we put on blindfolds and follow the US either even if it’s to the detriment of our own national security. if the peace treaty with Israel is not changed to force Israel to accept its 4th Geneva Convention responsibilities by taking back the refugees, then this peace treaty poses a clear and present danger to Jordan’s stability and national security.

Farah, you can’t pretend that Jordan’s security is not threatened by Israel’s refusal to allow the refugees to go home. by dumping its refugee problem on Jordan, israel has already destabilized the country once in the 70s.

unless if you have the stomach for a confrontation with the refugees when they start rejecting their miserable situation and demanding change. is this what you want? that’s what the present peace treaty will lead to in a matter of years. that’s Israels’ best case scenario, Arabs killing Arabs. which is what happened in 1970s in Jordan and in 1980s in Lebanon and later in Nahr Elbared.

So you can either shove your head in the sand and pretend we have a peace treaty that will ensure Jordan’s security, or you put up a good fight with all the tools available at your disposal to amend the peace treaty with Israel to enforce right of return or you fight along side the refugees to help them return to their land. And believe me, Hezbollah proved you don’t need a powerful military to pressure israel.

the peace treaty gives Israel security but destabilizes Jordan. so stop pretending your support for the peace treaty is about Jordan’s security, and start listening to the Arab masses since they have shown to possess greater foresight, more accurate moral compass, and greater concern for Arab national security then two-bit dictators who are protected or funded by the US and who have historically put their own interests above the interest of the Arab world.
Karam

>>> but it shouldn’t mean that we need to put on blindfolds and follow the masses in whatever they say or demand.

but it shouldn’t also mean that we put on blindfolds and follow the US either even if it’s to the detriment of our own national security. if the peace treaty with Israel is not changed to force Israel to accept its 4th Geneva Convention responsibilities by taking back the refugees, then this peace treaty poses a clear and present danger to Jordan’s stability and national security.

Farah, you can’t pretend that Jordan’s security is not threatened by Israel’s refusal to allow the refugees to go home. by dumping its refugee problem on Jordan, israel has already destabilized the country once in the 70s.

unless if you have the stomach for a confrontation with the refugees when they start rejecting their miserable situation and demanding change. is this what you want? that’s what the present peace treaty will lead to in a matter of years. that’s Israels’ best case scenario, Arabs killing Arabs. which is what happened in 1970s in Jordan and in 1980s in Lebanon and later in Nahr Elbared.

So you can either shove your head in the sand and pretend we have a peace treaty that will ensure Jordan’s security, or you put up a good fight with all the tools available at your disposal to amend the peace treaty with Israel to enforce right of return or you fight along side the refugees to help them return to their land. And believe me, Hezbollah proved you don’t need a powerful military to pressure israel.

the peace treaty gives Israel security but destabilizes Jordan. so stop pretending your support for the peace treaty is about Jordan’s security, and start listening to the Arab masses since they have shown to possess greater foresight, more accurate moral compass, and greater concern for Arab national security then two-bit dictators who are protected or funded by the US and who have historically put their own interests above the interest of the Arab world.
dana

Joe; do us a favour and go home, we really don’t need expats the likes of you who turn their noses down at the country that bore their parents and view their roots as something to be ashamed of….
dana

Joe; do us a favour and go home, we really don’t need expats the likes of you who turn their noses down at the country that bore their parents and view their roots as something to be ashamed of….
dana

… not to mention to complete inaccuracy of what you state (geez I wonder who you ended up hanging out with to get such weird notions of what jordanian society is al about? Are you sure you didn’t get on the wrong plane and land somewhere else?) Your’e the only person in the world with that idea of Jordanians. Oh – and if you have an issue with the call to prayer – you should definitley stay in Ny where you cans kip over the homeless every morningon your way to work and hear the call of angry taxi drivers swearing at you and others calling you an A-rab