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Why I’m Against Annuling the Treaty With Israel

January 3, 2009 206 Comments

Disclaimer: Before making a comment, bear in mind that I am an avid supporter of the Palestinian cause. I have not been “washed away” by Israeli propaganda nor can I begin to explain my fury and frustration at what is going on in Gaza right now.

Written By Farah Nimri

I was reluctant to speak about this at first, because of all the vicious fights that I’ve observed around the blogosphere whenever this subject is discussed. But I’m putting my opinion out there so people can see the other side of the equation. The other opinion, that everybody I’ve met seems to be terrified to disclose.

I am very much against the annulment of the Jordanian-Israeli peace treaty, the closure of the Israeli embassy or the expulsion of the ambassador, and I cannot see what good it could possibly achieve or contribute in ending the massacre the Palestinians are currently facing.

Here’s the thing. I understand the feelings of frustration and anger, I really do. I understand the feeling of helplessness that takes over you as you see the lives of over 400 people – 400 human beings just like you and me – being taken away in a place not so far from what we call home. I understand how the Arab nation feels like something has to be done, something needs to be done, so that we stop feeling so inferior to the rest of the world, to do something after being persecuted for so many years. I understand that it was OUR land to begin with, and that the Israelis were the ones who came here and unrightfully took over what’s not theirs. I understand all of that.

But here’s what I also understand. This dreaded treaty between us and the Israelis, the treaty that protests have been calling to annul for at least three times (that I can remember), is what’s preventing the Israelis from starting a war with us. I honestly don’t understand those who want to go into “war” and start a “jihad” against the Israelis. We are a country of 5 million, we have very few resources, and to put it simply and clearly, there’s no way in hell we can win a war against Israel. The reason Jordan has remained quite a safe country (considering the fact that we live in a war zone), is not exactly a miracle. It’s because we’ve accepted the presence of the Jewish nation as a fact and let’s face it, it’s not going to go away anytime soon, and if you think otherwise, you are either impacted by your emotions, or grossly overestimate the abilities of the very country you’re criticizing.

And this is why I can’t support the riots that have been breaking out all over the place. I couldn’t be more angry about what’s happening, but I frankly think you’re a hypocrite if you tell me you’re willing to sacrifice your freedom and safety to go into a battle, to go into a war, that you KNOW there’s no way you can win. I like the fact that I live in a safe, secure country, where I can go about my daily life without fear of having my house brought down over my head.

This doesn’t mean we’ve given up. I’m not giving up. I make my voice heard to let the people around the world, who aren’t being told the whole story, know that a massacre is taking place. There are other ways we can fight this war, and sacrificing this country is not one of them. We’ve done that once before and lost. We’d just be hitting the self-destruct button.

EDITORS’ NOTE: We would like to note that while 7iber encourages and welcomes all forms of debate, however sensitive the topic may be, it DOES NOT sanction any conversation that is laden with disrespectful language. Please find a way to get your point across without attacking others or their beliefs. Also, please keep it clean: profanity does not strengthen one’s argument.

Thank you.

dana

… not to mention to complete inaccuracy of what you state (geez I wonder who you ended up hanging out with to get such weird notions of what jordanian society is al about? Are you sure you didn’t get on the wrong plane and land somewhere else?) Your’e the only person in the world with that idea of Jordanians. Oh – and if you have an issue with the call to prayer – you should definitley stay in Ny where you cans kip over the homeless every morningon your way to work and hear the call of angry taxi drivers swearing at you and others calling you an A-rab
http://www.thescatterload.com/ Hamzeh N.

Tarallala, there has been a strong and recognized Jordanian response to the Israeli aggression on Gaza. It has been markedly stronger and more effective than the response of almost any other Arab nation, AND it included the statement you referred to by PM Dhahabi. So when you say that I’m justifying a “non-response,” you would be wrong.

Finally, regarding PM Dhahabi’s statement. I personally chose to not take it very seriously. I think it’s a statement that’s made to silence those who care so much about symbolic gestures. Our government will reconsider the country’s relations with Israel, sure they’ll do. They’ll have a lunch meeting one day and decide that “after reconsidering, we see that it’s still in Jordan’s best interest to maintain diplomatic relations.” Yuppy!
http://www.thescatterload.com Hamzeh N.

Tarallala, there has been a strong and recognized Jordanian response to the Israeli aggression on Gaza. It has been markedly stronger and more effective than the response of almost any other Arab nation, AND it included the statement you referred to by PM Dhahabi. So when you say that I’m justifying a “non-response,” you would be wrong.

Finally, regarding PM Dhahabi’s statement. I personally chose to not take it very seriously. I think it’s a statement that’s made to silence those who care so much about symbolic gestures. Our government will reconsider the country’s relations with Israel, sure they’ll do. They’ll have a lunch meeting one day and decide that “after reconsidering, we see that it’s still in Jordan’s best interest to maintain diplomatic relations.” Yuppy!
Lara Darwazah

After reading one of the blogger’s comment on terrorism. I received this, in my opinion. objective piece of journalism by William Sieghart. It is imperative that we try and not slip into that repetitive “terrorist” drone by the US and Israeli media.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5420584.ece
Lara Darwazah

After reading one of the blogger’s comment on terrorism. I received this, in my opinion. objective piece of journalism by William Sieghart. It is imperative that we try and not slip into that repetitive “terrorist” drone by the US and Israeli media.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5420584.ece
Majali

I don’t wish to take sides but I have some points for everyone’s benefit.

I) I am not surprised to read comments such as Hemza N and Farah. Most people who grow up in repressive countries either on the repressing side or the receiving side do not have a clear notion of human rights and human dignity. Repressive systems eschew the human rights culture and reduce it to public statements to deflect critics or to attract Western sponsors. Human rights culture in Jordan is skin deep.

II) Few Jordanians who belong to the official class actually make a living out of dealings with Israel. Their defense of the peace treaty is self-motivated since it’s absence could jeopardize not only their livelihood but also years of work they have based on Jordan’s security and economic cooperation with Israel. I am not taking sides, just explaining the motives based on what some of my Jordanian friends who have well-funded “dialog” or “exchange” NGOs built on joint Jordanian-Israel ventures and others who receive US funding.

Despite the fact all studies have demonstrated beyond any doubt that Jordan’s peace treaty with Israel is a strategic threat to Jordan, the treaty still benefits a small clique of powerful Jordanians, who are the last line of defense in support of the Jordan-Israel peace treaty. I know I am not saying anything new since most Jordanians know by know that politics in Jordan is rarely about the interest of Jordan but simply the interest of this small powerful clique.

Food for thought.
Majali

I don’t wish to take sides but I have some points for everyone’s benefit.

I) I am not surprised to read comments such as Hemza N and Farah. Most people who grow up in repressive countries either on the repressing side or the receiving side do not have a clear notion of human rights and human dignity. Repressive systems eschew the human rights culture and reduce it to public statements to deflect critics or to attract Western sponsors. Human rights culture in Jordan is skin deep.

II) Few Jordanians who belong to the official class actually make a living out of dealings with Israel. Their defense of the peace treaty is self-motivated since it’s absence could jeopardize not only their livelihood but also years of work they have based on Jordan’s security and economic cooperation with Israel. I am not taking sides, just explaining the motives based on what some of my Jordanian friends who have well-funded “dialog” or “exchange” NGOs built on joint Jordanian-Israel ventures and others who receive US funding.

Despite the fact all studies have demonstrated beyond any doubt that Jordan’s peace treaty with Israel is a strategic threat to Jordan, the treaty still benefits a small clique of powerful Jordanians, who are the last line of defense in support of the Jordan-Israel peace treaty. I know I am not saying anything new since most Jordanians know by know that politics in Jordan is rarely about the interest of Jordan but simply the interest of this small powerful clique.

Food for thought.
Yehya

HamzaN, Farah…why don’t you answer your critics. how do you propose for Jordan to pressure Israel to let the refugees go home if the peace treaty does not even mention that?

I don’t understand how you claim that the peace treaty is good for Jordan when the king himself keeps rejecting turning Jordan into an alternative homeland for expelled Palestinians, yet this is what Jordan’s peace treaty with Israel effectively does since it absolves Israel from those Palestinians it ethnically cleaned and pushed into Jordan.

I won’t blame the late King Hussein since no doubt the US and Israel were secretly threatening all sorts of political and economic consequences if the late king refused to sign a peace treaty with Israel. But what’s your excuse? What’s your deal? Or if Majali is correct, how do you benefit from this peace treaty when it forces Jordan into fulfilling the McCain Plan?
Yehya

HamzaN, Farah…why don’t you answer your critics. how do you propose for Jordan to pressure Israel to let the refugees go home if the peace treaty does not even mention that?

I don’t understand how you claim that the peace treaty is good for Jordan when the king himself keeps rejecting turning Jordan into an alternative homeland for expelled Palestinians, yet this is what Jordan’s peace treaty with Israel effectively does since it absolves Israel from those Palestinians it ethnically cleaned and pushed into Jordan.

I won’t blame the late King Hussein since no doubt the US and Israel were secretly threatening all sorts of political and economic consequences if the late king refused to sign a peace treaty with Israel. But what’s your excuse? What’s your deal? Or if Majali is correct, how do you benefit from this peace treaty when it forces Jordan into fulfilling the McCain Plan?
Jana7i

In a democracy, an elected leaders before making a strategic decision asks the question, What’s good for my country and its future. In an Arab dictatorship, the despot asks the question, what will keep the US happy with me. That’s about the only question asked when an Arab dictator decides to flirt with Israel, not the greater good, not the long-term interest of the people and the country, just a question of political survival. That’s for Arab despots only.

Because African dictators, during Apartheid South Africa, took serious blows from the White regime but refused to provide security cooperation with them and rejected any normalization with the Whites at the expense of Blacks.

So is it possible that Arab despots are the lowest form of human beings and the most morally depraved of all types of despots known in modern history?
Jana7i

In a democracy, an elected leaders before making a strategic decision asks the question, What’s good for my country and its future. In an Arab dictatorship, the despot asks the question, what will keep the US happy with me. That’s about the only question asked when an Arab dictator decides to flirt with Israel, not the greater good, not the long-term interest of the people and the country, just a question of political survival. That’s for Arab despots only.

Because African dictators, during Apartheid South Africa, took serious blows from the White regime but refused to provide security cooperation with them and rejected any normalization with the Whites at the expense of Blacks.

So is it possible that Arab despots are the lowest form of human beings and the most morally depraved of all types of despots known in modern history?
Bilal

First, i would like to say am not going to follow what some called “decent debate”, so for those who are very sensitive and know all about “human rights” DON’T READ!
To Farah i think you just didn’t reply because you simply can’t, but about this:

“May god help those in Gaza, may we see an end to these atrocities soon enough”

Was just listening to Shimon Peres, and GOD how much similar you two sound. Keep sympathizing with people dying there, and meanwhile keep supporting those who kill them.
No matter how “not civilzed” this might sound, heroes struggling in Gaza don’t need your Sympathy, especially from those who try to help killing them.

PS if you were walking in the street & someone jumped on you, hitting you and trying to steal your wallet, people will just watch and sympathize. Maybe the thief will shoot them or stab them or whatever, so it is better for one to protect oneself. They’ll just send you their symapthy and I hope it will do.

3AIB, those are our brothers there, they are not aliens.
Bilal

First, i would like to say am not going to follow what some called “decent debate”, so for those who are very sensitive and know all about “human rights” DON’T READ!
To Farah i think you just didn’t reply because you simply can’t, but about this:

“May god help those in Gaza, may we see an end to these atrocities soon enough”

Was just listening to Shimon Peres, and GOD how much similar you two sound. Keep sympathizing with people dying there, and meanwhile keep supporting those who kill them.
No matter how “not civilzed” this might sound, heroes struggling in Gaza don’t need your Sympathy, especially from those who try to help killing them.

PS if you were walking in the street & someone jumped on you, hitting you and trying to steal your wallet, people will just watch and sympathize. Maybe the thief will shoot them or stab them or whatever, so it is better for one to protect oneself. They’ll just send you their symapthy and I hope it will do.

3AIB, those are our brothers there, they are not aliens.
Bilal

Oops i just read the editor’s note, which seems to be recently added because I didn’t see it before.

Anyway sorry Mr Editor, I seriously could find no lanuage to use replying on this “REPLY”
don’t they say “sakata dahran wo nataqa kofran”?
Bilal

Oops i just read the editor’s note, which seems to be recently added because I didn’t see it before.

Anyway sorry Mr Editor, I seriously could find no lanuage to use replying on this “REPLY”
don’t they say “sakata dahran wo nataqa kofran”?
Shocked

Never ever imagined that i’ll actually see Arabs talking about Israel as if it is an ally.

Simply shocked!!!
Shocked

Never ever imagined that i’ll actually see Arabs talking about Israel as if it is an ally.

Simply shocked!!!
Nihad

Don’t be shocked. In any country you will always find 5% who will do anything for wealth and power. The unsavory remarks you are reading are originating from that 5%. Democracy protects against those 5% by wresting power in the hands of the majority. The US prefers to see this 5% run our affairs in return for money or the preservation of their power over the remaining 95% of Arabs.

So guess how those 5% retain power over the 95% ? murder, torture, corruption, with the full support of the Pentagon and CIA. It’s that simple. Always been that simple.

It consumes so much energy to keep the 95% under the 5% boots. You need to divide them, brainwash them, corrupt them, all of that leaves little time for any meaningful development other then bogus programs that look good in press releases until the next UNDP or HRW or IMF report comes out to tell us how horrifically wrong things have been going over the the last year, and the year before and so on and so forth.

But don’t despair. 95% of Arabs see eye to eye with you. They just don’t have the power to make a change yet. And they are not necessarily avid bloggers.
Nihad

Don’t be shocked. In any country you will always find 5% who will do anything for wealth and power. The unsavory remarks you are reading are originating from that 5%. Democracy protects against those 5% by wresting power in the hands of the majority. The US prefers to see this 5% run our affairs in return for money or the preservation of their power over the remaining 95% of Arabs.

So guess how those 5% retain power over the 95% ? murder, torture, corruption, with the full support of the Pentagon and CIA. It’s that simple. Always been that simple.

It consumes so much energy to keep the 95% under the 5% boots. You need to divide them, brainwash them, corrupt them, all of that leaves little time for any meaningful development other then bogus programs that look good in press releases until the next UNDP or HRW or IMF report comes out to tell us how horrifically wrong things have been going over the the last year, and the year before and so on and so forth.

But don’t despair. 95% of Arabs see eye to eye with you. They just don’t have the power to make a change yet. And they are not necessarily avid bloggers.
Ahmad

I find it laughable that the pro-hamas/war with Israel posse are lecturing on Human Rights. Unlike you I don’t look at the 500 dead as numbers, they are human beings, each one had friends, a family, dreams and aspirations, etc.. Those deaths could have been avoided if Hamas didn’t attack Israel and if they had tried a peaceful solution. That’s what we are doing here, asking for peace, and putting an end to the current (and future) bloodshed. So please, if you are with disturbing the peace, do not preach about Human Rights, you just come of as rambling hypocrites.
Ahmad

I find it laughable that the pro-hamas/war with Israel posse are lecturing on Human Rights. Unlike you I don’t look at the 500 dead as numbers, they are human beings, each one had friends, a family, dreams and aspirations, etc.. Those deaths could have been avoided if Hamas didn’t attack Israel and if they had tried a peaceful solution. That’s what we are doing here, asking for peace, and putting an end to the current (and future) bloodshed. So please, if you are with disturbing the peace, do not preach about Human Rights, you just come of as rambling hypocrites.
Sami

“Ahmad”, shame on you. Israel kills Palestinians and you blame the resistance. These are Israeli bombs and bullets that take innocent lives and they are made in the US and funded by American tax payers. And by the way, to me anyone who is defending his land is innocent.

But in case you have forgotten it took a million and half murdered Algerians to evict the genocidal french out of Algeria. It took over a million Vietnamese killed by Uncle Sam to kick the b******* out. Same for Iraq.

And it may take us more sacrifices to end colonialism, direct or indirect, and bring democracy and freedom to the Arabs. Gaza may be the turning point.

Well, I should not get upset. Any Shlomo and Ja3ja3 can pretend to be an Ahmad on the web.
Sami

“Ahmad”, shame on you. Israel kills Palestinians and you blame the resistance. These are Israeli bombs and bullets that take innocent lives and they are made in the US and funded by American tax payers. And by the way, to me anyone who is defending his land is innocent.

But in case you have forgotten it took a million and half murdered Algerians to evict the genocidal french out of Algeria. It took over a million Vietnamese killed by Uncle Sam to kick the b******* out. Same for Iraq.

And it may take us more sacrifices to end colonialism, direct or indirect, and bring democracy and freedom to the Arabs. Gaza may be the turning point.

Well, I should not get upset. Any Shlomo and Ja3ja3 can pretend to be an Ahmad on the web.
Dina

if that is true, there’s no need to attack the civilians in Gaza, no excuse!
Israel with the most updated technology can work to reach Hamas Militants without causing any harm to the civilians…

and so there’s no need for the siege on Gaza, that denies the access of FOOD, AID, MEDICAL SUPPLIES, FUEL!! to the civilians.

Israel knows how to differentiate between the civilians and the militants and they used to do that, when they targeted the militants key leaders by car bombs.

this invasion aims to takeover the parliament seats in the Israeli coming elections, a misleading plan to buy the voters!
Dina

if that is true, there’s no need to attack the civilians in Gaza, no excuse!
Israel with the most updated technology can work to reach Hamas Militants without causing any harm to the civilians…

and so there’s no need for the siege on Gaza, that denies the access of FOOD, AID, MEDICAL SUPPLIES, FUEL!! to the civilians.

Israel knows how to differentiate between the civilians and the militants and they used to do that, when they targeted the militants key leaders by car bombs.

this invasion aims to takeover the parliament seats in the Israeli coming elections, a misleading plan to buy the voters!
Shocked

Yeah you are right Sami anyone can claim to be an Ahamd.

“That’s what we are doing here, asking for peace, and putting an end to the current (and future) bloodshed. So please, if you are with disturbing the peace, do not preach about Human Rights, you just come of as rambling hypocrites.”

Ahmad, so you want to stop the bloodshed that has never stopped for the past 60 years?! Hamas hasn’t ever existed you know, yet palestinains were ever killed and murdered in the ugliest possible ways, and we are still defending the so called peace. Hamas hasn’t been firing missiles since ever, it is just the excuse Zionists use, and i don’t know if you believe it or simply chose to.

By the way, I really advice you to read further and more thoroughly. You can never be more mistaken if you think that there is a single Zionist who wants you or wants me alive. They hate all arabs with peace treaties or without them, and you’ll just be blind if you didn’t get this yet.

It is not about Hamas, or any other resistance. On the contrary, it is a war against me, you and those in Gaza.
So please if you are looking at those 500 people as human beings, as innocent souls, keep in mind that they are dying because of our peace treaties, because of Rafah border that is yet to be closed. Add to this that you are calling for peace with the very same people murdering them. That’s not exactly what anyone can call, respecting their souls.

N.B – Visit http://www.israel-vs-palestine.com/gz/, go there and see what zionists say about arabs, or go to any other blog, discussion board and just read, and tell me if they really want the peace. This peace that they reject and we never stop calling for.

– 40 people of the same family were murdered today, all of them except for one. Two days ago, israelis (those who know all about human rights, those with whom we should achieve peace), asked them all to go into the same house or they’ll destroy their houses, and so did the family. Today, they fired missiles on the house and killed everybody. Watch al jazeera or any other channel, do they really want to leave us in peace?

you can lie to yourself, but this is just too much. Especially that it doesn’t only include you, it includes a whole nation.

SHAME ON THE PEACE WHEN IT MEANS SURRENDER!
Shocked

Yeah you are right Sami anyone can claim to be an Ahamd.

“That’s what we are doing here, asking for peace, and putting an end to the current (and future) bloodshed. So please, if you are with disturbing the peace, do not preach about Human Rights, you just come of as rambling hypocrites.”

Ahmad, so you want to stop the bloodshed that has never stopped for the past 60 years?! Hamas hasn’t ever existed you know, yet palestinains were ever killed and murdered in the ugliest possible ways, and we are still defending the so called peace. Hamas hasn’t been firing missiles since ever, it is just the excuse Zionists use, and i don’t know if you believe it or simply chose to.

By the way, I really advice you to read further and more thoroughly. You can never be more mistaken if you think that there is a single Zionist who wants you or wants me alive. They hate all arabs with peace treaties or without them, and you’ll just be blind if you didn’t get this yet.

It is not about Hamas, or any other resistance. On the contrary, it is a war against me, you and those in Gaza.
So please if you are looking at those 500 people as human beings, as innocent souls, keep in mind that they are dying because of our peace treaties, because of Rafah border that is yet to be closed. Add to this that you are calling for peace with the very same people murdering them. That’s not exactly what anyone can call, respecting their souls.

N.B – Visit http://www.israel-vs-palestine.com/gz/, go there and see what zionists say about arabs, or go to any other blog, discussion board and just read, and tell me if they really want the peace. This peace that they reject and we never stop calling for.

– 40 people of the same family were murdered today, all of them except for one. Two days ago, israelis (those who know all about human rights, those with whom we should achieve peace), asked them all to go into the same house or they’ll destroy their houses, and so did the family. Today, they fired missiles on the house and killed everybody. Watch al jazeera or any other channel, do they really want to leave us in peace?

you can lie to yourself, but this is just too much. Especially that it doesn’t only include you, it includes a whole nation.

SHAME ON THE PEACE WHEN IT MEANS SURRENDER!
Ahmad

Sami and Shocked:
I realize the Israeli bullets are killing the Palestinians, as I said before I’m not condoning what they are doing, BUT Hamas are to blame for provoking a clearly superior enemy. They knew perfectly well that Israel will retaliate and kill ten Palestinians for every Israeli, but they obviously didn’t care. You say Israel want’s to kill us all, so why the hell should we give it an excuse to!?! Peace treaties are the only thing that will temporarily stop the blood shed, it’s fine if you disagree, but please don’t ever talk about Human right’s and compassion if you do.

Also Sami you are obviously emotionally crippled if you are asking for sacrifices. I would like you to see you tell a small girl that both her parent’s died for the good of Arabs. As I said before, you see the dead as figures while sitting comfortably on your computer, that’s why are asking for more.

As for my name yes it’s Ahmad unfortunately, I am from Irbid living in Amman, and I don’t have to prove anything to you. I also don’t see how it has any bearing on how you perceive my post.
Ahmad

Sami and Shocked:
I realize the Israeli bullets are killing the Palestinians, as I said before I’m not condoning what they are doing, BUT Hamas are to blame for provoking a clearly superior enemy. They knew perfectly well that Israel will retaliate and kill ten Palestinians for every Israeli, but they obviously didn’t care. You say Israel want’s to kill us all, so why the hell should we give it an excuse to!?! Peace treaties are the only thing that will temporarily stop the blood shed, it’s fine if you disagree, but please don’t ever talk about Human right’s and compassion if you do.

Also Sami you are obviously emotionally crippled if you are asking for sacrifices. I would like you to see you tell a small girl that both her parent’s died for the good of Arabs. As I said before, you see the dead as figures while sitting comfortably on your computer, that’s why are asking for more.

As for my name yes it’s Ahmad unfortunately, I am from Irbid living in Amman, and I don’t have to prove anything to you. I also don’t see how it has any bearing on how you perceive my post.
Ta7ya

>>> Hamas are to blame for provoking a clearly superior enemy

Ahmed, so what you are telling us that when “provoked” by a far inferior force, Jews in Israel have a legitimate right to kill non-Jewish babies?
Ta7ya

>>> Hamas are to blame for provoking a clearly superior enemy

Ahmed, so what you are telling us that when “provoked” by a far inferior force, Jews in Israel have a legitimate right to kill non-Jewish babies?
Lara Darwazah

Ahmad please read http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5420584.ece
Lara Darwazah

Ahmad please read http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5420584.ece
Samar

Ahmad, Basically according to your illogic, anytime a people want to be free, all the occupying power has to do is to kill their babies and that turns those who wish to free themselvs into partners in the murders?

Dude, what are you drinking?
Samar

Ahmad, Basically according to your illogic, anytime a people want to be free, all the occupying power has to do is to kill their babies and that turns those who wish to free themselvs into partners in the murders?

Dude, what are you drinking?
TARIQ

dear ahmad (or sholomo), you and others have made your case for denouncing the palestinian resistance and for supporting the treaty, but you offered nothing in terms of alternatives to permanent resettlement of Palestinians in Jordan or to armed resistance to help the palestinains rid themselves of colonialism.

How come all of you pro-Israelis just dump on us but you never NEVER provide a working alternative. is it because you know that Israel has been killing Palestinians long before Hamas. Is it because you know that the peace process has helped provide cover for Israel while it expanded its jewish colonies, judfified Jerusalem, and crippling the palestinian economy? is it because you know Israeli jews will never accept that Arabs have same human rights (do you blame them when they see the way our dictators piss allover us)

you just want palestinains to be good occupied subjects, shut up, suffer quietly, and just vanish. that’s about the only thing that you will not object to.
TARIQ

dear ahmad (or sholomo), you and others have made your case for denouncing the palestinian resistance and for supporting the treaty, but you offered nothing in terms of alternatives to permanent resettlement of Palestinians in Jordan or to armed resistance to help the palestinains rid themselves of colonialism.

How come all of you pro-Israelis just dump on us but you never NEVER provide a working alternative. is it because you know that Israel has been killing Palestinians long before Hamas. Is it because you know that the peace process has helped provide cover for Israel while it expanded its jewish colonies, judfified Jerusalem, and crippling the palestinian economy? is it because you know Israeli jews will never accept that Arabs have same human rights (do you blame them when they see the way our dictators piss allover us)

you just want palestinains to be good occupied subjects, shut up, suffer quietly, and just vanish. that’s about the only thing that you will not object to.
http://www.thescatterload.com/ Hamzeh N.

Yahya, please go back and read my comments. The only thing I talked about was annulling the peace treaty with Israel as a response to the current offensive on Gaza. Basically, my point is this: under the current situation in Gaza, which is better? Being able to send food/medicine/clothes into Gaza which are all desperately needed, or canceling the peace treaty and doing nothing?
http://www.thescatterload.com Hamzeh N.

Yahya, please go back and read my comments. The only thing I talked about was annulling the peace treaty with Israel as a response to the current offensive on Gaza. Basically, my point is this: under the current situation in Gaza, which is better? Being able to send food/medicine/clothes into Gaza which are all desperately needed, or canceling the peace treaty and doing nothing?
Salam

Hamza, STOP your cynical exploitation of the suffering of Gazans to legitimize something that causes far more harm to Jordanians and Palestinians. the Israelis, for their own PR purposes, will have to let supplies in one way or the other even if they have to do it themselves.

You keep ignoring questions about the role of the Jordan-Israel treaty in offloading the refugee problem on Jordan and absolving Israel from its legal and moral obligation. WHY DON’T YOU TELL US HOW THIS IS GOOD FOR JORDANIANS AND PALESTINIANS! and please, don’t hold back on account of sending aid trucks to Gaza if this is your only justification for the treaty.
Salam

Hamza, STOP your cynical exploitation of the suffering of Gazans to legitimize something that causes far more harm to Jordanians and Palestinians. the Israelis, for their own PR purposes, will have to let supplies in one way or the other even if they have to do it themselves.

You keep ignoring questions about the role of the Jordan-Israel treaty in offloading the refugee problem on Jordan and absolving Israel from its legal and moral obligation. WHY DON’T YOU TELL US HOW THIS IS GOOD FOR JORDANIANS AND PALESTINIANS! and please, don’t hold back on account of sending aid trucks to Gaza if this is your only justification for the treaty.
Nayef Copty

Tamim,

You SERIOUSLY compare the battles of Al Karamah, D-Day, Yarmouk, Marathon with what we have now?!

They used to all have swords and all!

Now we’re talking about high tech advanced weapons, such as Nuclear which take YEARS to develop and require a tremendous amount of investment, and a massive amount of knowledge and expertise!

For God sake, stop living in the “Sala7 Al Deen” days. We’re in 2009. Be realistic. A guy with 2000 fighters all having faith will not resolve this issue. What we need is something bigger.

In my opinion, for this to be resolved, a huge war has to break where powers such as Israel, Iran and the United States will get engaged. And small countries in between, such as Jordan, will get nothing but massive damages.
Nayef Copty

Tamim,

You SERIOUSLY compare the battles of Al Karamah, D-Day, Yarmouk, Marathon with what we have now?!

They used to all have swords and all!

Now we’re talking about high tech advanced weapons, such as Nuclear which take YEARS to develop and require a tremendous amount of investment, and a massive amount of knowledge and expertise!

For God sake, stop living in the “Sala7 Al Deen” days. We’re in 2009. Be realistic. A guy with 2000 fighters all having faith will not resolve this issue. What we need is something bigger.

In my opinion, for this to be resolved, a huge war has to break where powers such as Israel, Iran and the United States will get engaged. And small countries in between, such as Jordan, will get nothing but massive damages.
http://ad-noctum.blogspot.com/ Tamim

Nayef Copty,

1) No one is living in the times of Sala7 Al Deen.

2) D-Day, karamah and Others are in the 20th Century, with Bombs, Jet Fighters, Tanks, and even Nuclear Weapons.

3) Battles are battles no matter how old they are, sword against sword, Machine Gun against machine gun. the basics are the same. thats why every modern warefare strategy book, and every military academy teaches Marathon and Cannae and other ancient battles.

4) Hezbollah liberated the south of Lebanon from Isreal with simple weapons. so did the Vietnamese people and other nations in the times of Laser Guided Missiles and Spy Satellites.
http://ad-noctum.blogspot.com Tamim

Nayef Copty,

1) No one is living in the times of Sala7 Al Deen.

2) D-Day, karamah and Others are in the 20th Century, with Bombs, Jet Fighters, Tanks, and even Nuclear Weapons.

3) Battles are battles no matter how old they are, sword against sword, Machine Gun against machine gun. the basics are the same. thats why every modern warefare strategy book, and every military academy teaches Marathon and Cannae and other ancient battles.

4) Hezbollah liberated the south of Lebanon from Isreal with simple weapons. so did the Vietnamese people and other nations in the times of Laser Guided Missiles and Spy Satellites.
Kyle

Farah,

I absolutely support your opinion.

I also happen to be scared of what can possibly happen during the idle time BETWEEN an ended treaty and the time we are able to install a new one.

Modern government in Israel and the last 10+ conflicts will not make a second treaty plausible and if it does, it won’t be in our favor whatsoever.

I would stick to our current problems first before we talk further politics at a time of OPEN FIRE!
Kyle

Farah,

I absolutely support your opinion.

I also happen to be scared of what can possibly happen during the idle time BETWEEN an ended treaty and the time we are able to install a new one.

Modern government in Israel and the last 10+ conflicts will not make a second treaty plausible and if it does, it won’t be in our favor whatsoever.

I would stick to our current problems first before we talk further politics at a time of OPEN FIRE!
Kyle

***** NAYEF *******

Please do not associate the U.N. with the U.S.

Extremely separate agendas and actually, the U.N. has gone against U.S. proposals the majority of the time. Also, the U.N. is for Gaza and FOR a revised political agreement between Israel and it’s Middle Eastern neighbors.

They have just expressed that, this past week, a billion times.
Kyle

***** NAYEF *******

Please do not associate the U.N. with the U.S.

Extremely separate agendas and actually, the U.N. has gone against U.S. proposals the majority of the time. Also, the U.N. is for Gaza and FOR a revised political agreement between Israel and it’s Middle Eastern neighbors.

They have just expressed that, this past week, a billion times.
http://www.thescatterload.com/ Hamzeh N.

Salam, I’m an avid supporter of the right of return of Palestinian refugees to land within the whole of historical Palestine. Maybe the treaty between Jordan and Israel does compromise that right, but I currently don’t think it does.

More importantly, I don’t understand how you can accuse me of exploiting the suffering of people I care so much about in Gaza while I’m the one who’s putting their safety and the easing of their current suffering as the top priority, and you’re choosing to argue for solving the right of return which is the most complex problems in the entire Israeli-Arab conflict and by far not the most urgent matter.

Even if the Jordanian peace treaty with Israel compromised the right of return, I believe now is not the time to go back on it, because of the reasons I mentioned before regarding the ability to send aid into Gaza from Jordan (Syria can’t send aid to Gaza for example, not even through Jordan).

Your argument that Israel will sooner or later (much later trust me) have to allow aid into Gaza no matter what is valid, but it will come at a high cost on the Palestinian side that we can avoid. Minimizing the suffering in Gaza as a result of the current Israeli assault should be our topmost priority, and believe me when I say the worst Jordan can do is cut its relations with Israel in the middle of this.

I’m not a strict supporter of the current peace treaty with Israel. I’m sure it has many deficiencies which must be addressed.

I simply believe now is not the time to do it.