Interesting! I think training palestinian security forces is good enough. Not need to push it further and take the states risks!

Dear Mohamad Omar, why beat a dead horse? Any discussion about Jordan as an alternative homeland for Palestinains is pointless. have you read the Jordanian-israeli “peace” agreement. There is not one word in the agreement obliging Israeli to roll back effects of hostilities. When wars end and peace agreements signed, refugees return home. But Jordanian negotiators were happy to take home “economic incentives” in return for absolving Israeli from repatriating millions of Palestinains refugees who fled the Israeli slaughter. fact is, the Jordan-Israeli peace agreement removed Jordan’s sovereignty over its territories. first, the 99-year lease scam of Jewish settlements on Jordanian soil gave away our land. Second, and the most sinister twist, by failing to mention any timetable for refugee repatriation, basically, the Jordan-Israel peace agreement was reduced to nothing more than Cash for “Peace.” or if we dispense with politeness the peace agreement is Cash for de facto resettlement of Palestinian Refugees in Jordan and loss of sovereignty over occupied Jordanian territory. Jordanian negotiators abrogated Jordan’s sovereignty and colluded with Israel to violate the most sacred of human rights, the right of refugees to return. Some negotiators spin this catastrophe by saying this is a PLO issue. Imagine, Jordan and Lebanon’s sovereignty, national security, and stability and the human rights of millions of Palestinains is left to an impotent PLO that can’t negotiate its own free passage in and out of Ramallah. So my dear Mohammad Omar, are you fooling yourself or are you fooling us? This is a done deal. it has been signed and celebrated on the front lawn of the White House. So please spare us any worthless discussion about something you can’t change or reverse.

and one more thing, there will never be any unity between any two arab countries so long as there is not true and genuine democracy in both. i doubt the pals will trade their relative freedoms (believe it or not they have far more freedoms under occupation than most Arabs have under arab dictators) with repressive and corrupt Jordanian alternative to a corrupt Palestinian leadership in West Bank. better your own SOBs then the SOB you don’t know.

شكرا على ترجمة هذه الوثيقة المهمة، وأعتقد بأنه من المهم عدم المبالغة في تقييم التحدي. لا شك مطلقا في وجود مخطط بديل لإعفاء إسرائيل من تحميل مسؤولية الاحتلال وضرورة الإنسحاب من الأراضي الفلسطينية، ولا شك ايضا أن الإنقسام ما بين غزة والضفة يرسخ الخيار البديل ولكن من المهم عدم تحويل هذا الوضع إلى مبرر للتخويف من الوطن البديل بشكل يهدد حقوق المواطنين الأردنيين من أصل فلسطيني. ربما تبدو هذه النتيجة مزعجة للبعض ولكن سوف يضطر الأردن لتقوية علاقاته الإستراتيجية مع الولايات المتحدة لتحييد خيارات الوطن البديل في مهدها لأن الأ{دن بحاجة إلى طرف يثق به وبكل أسف فإن الاحتمال في الثقة بإدارة أوباما أعلى من فرص الثقة بنتنياهو وحتى بالسلطة الفلسطينية وإمارة غزة الإسلامية.

باتر, يا رجل المعاهدة الأردنية الإسرائيلية قضت على أية فرصة للأردنين والفلسطينيين لمواجهة الوطن البديل. لقد أقفل النظام الأردني كل الأبواب على الأردنيين بمعاهدة غبية ان لم تكن إجرامية مع سبق الإصرار والترصد لاتلزم إسرائيل بالسماح لفلسطيني واحد بالعودة لبيته. يا رجل وين انت عايش؟ تغيب سنة وثم تأتي لتتحفنا بتعليقاتك المنسلخة عن الواقع. المخطط او المؤامرة ليست خارجية ولم تفرض علينا. بل هرول المفاوضون الأردنييون اليها هرولة مقابل حفنة دولارات. الموضوع إنتهى منذ توقيع الإتفاقية الإسرائيلية الأردنية وكل كلام اليوم عن مقاومة مؤامرة وطن بديل هو من باب المزاودة والتنظير الفارغ.

I think that the institute you mentioned have played a role in the bush admin, since it is a right wing think tank. My guess is that their role will be less felt during obama’s term.

أخ تامر الكلام عن الوطن البديل مش تنظير ومزاوده، هو أداة من أدوات تكريس الواقع في البلد ومحاوله لختم أي نداء إصلاحي بختم تهديد الوحده الوطنيه وأمن و إستقرار البلد. وزارات يتم تشكيلها وتعديلها في غرف مغلقة كأن الشعب عبارة عن مجموعة بعير لا تفقه شيء. شوف مثلا قانون الإنتخاب، الناس إلي ضد تعديله بتخبوا ورى حماية حق العوده وبنتظروا السلام عشان كل واحد يحدد ولأاته.. هو بين وبينك معاهم حق، لئنو مثل ما جلالتو حكى احنا دوله هاشميه و الولاءات عنا مش للبلد، بل لأشخاص.

ما علينا..

الكلام عن الوطن البديل قبل المعاهدة الأردنية الإسرائيلية له فائدة. ولكن الكلام عن مقاومة مشروع الوطن البديل بعد الإتفاقية هو أمر سخيف لأن التوطين أصبح أمر واقع وتحصيل حاصل بتوقيع قلم. وكل من يحاول طرح الموضوع الآن إما هو أحمق لايعلم ان الإتفاقية جعلت من الوطن البديل امرا حتميا او هو كاذب ويلعب على وتر حساس لأسباب دنيئة إقليمية مثل ناهض حتر هذا الفاشي المتطرف الذي يعلم ان الإتفاقية كرست الوطن البديل ولكنه لم يوجه أصبع الإتهام ولو مرة لمن باعوا سيادة الأردن وحقوق الفلسطينيين في وادي عربة مقابل حزمات من الدولارات في المناطق الحرة وغيرها من المشاريع المربحة لهم والمسيئة للأردن. يعنى لا إنت ولا انا ولا اية فزعة من اية طراز تستطيع إلغاء او تعديل ما تم الإتفاق عليه في المعاهدة الأردنية الإسرائيلية المشؤومة

مهند: في مثل شعبي يقول عندما تخلص الطوشة, ينزل الشبيحة. اية ان الجبناء ينتظرون إنتهاء المعركة لكي ينزلوا ويستعرضوا عضلاتهم الهزيلة بعد إن حسم الأمر. وكل العطعطة والتطبيل والتزمير من أشكال ناهض حتر والمنافقين الجدد ضد الوطن البديل فات اوانه بعد أن تم توقيع معاهدة التطبيع الأردنية الإسرائيلية. كان من الأجدر على من يدعون مناهضة مشاريع الوطن البديل ان يواجهوا الإتفاقية في خضم المفاوضات وليس بعد ان إنتهى الأمر وأعفى المفاوضيين الأردنيين إسرائيل من مسؤوليتها التاريخية والقانونية تجاه اللاجئيين الفلسطينيين. هذا ما يحدث عندما لايكون ولاء “المعارض” للأردن او ولاء المفاوض للأردن بل لأمريكا ومصالحه الشخصية. فياجماعة إلزمونا سكوتكم وبلاش مزاودات رخيصة في وقت لاتنفع فيه المزاودات. لأن الطوشة خلصت ومو شايفين الا الشبيحة.

ليست الأمور بهذه البساطة. قبل المعاهدة وقبل فك الإرتباط بالذات مان الأردن منغمسا بشدة في الشأن الفلسطيني نتيجة القناعات التي كات تحملها القيادة العليا في ضرورة وجود دور أردني في فلسطين وهذا ما ورثناه منذ 1950 وسبب في الكثير من الشحن النفسي بين الأردنيين والفلسطينيين والتي عززتها أحداث أيلول المؤسفة. موضوع الوطن البديل كان موجودا دائما ولكن تزايدت الفرص الآن نتيجة المتغيرات السياسية وخاصة صعود اليمين الإسرائيلي وفلسفة المحافظين الجدد في الولايات المتحدة وأخيرا الإنقسام الفلسطيني الذي ينهي فرص الدولة المستقلة. أنا لا أدعي تقديم تحليلات عبقرية ولكن على الأقل لا أستسلم لنظريات المؤامرة وإذا كان ثمة أي أمل في مقاومة الوطن البديل يجب التمسك به لمصلحة الأردن وفلسطين معا. وضع كل اللوم على المعاهدة وتهريب إسرائيل والتنظيمات الفلسطينية من المسؤولية هو مراهقة سياسية لا أكثر ولا أقل.

باتر: أكرر سؤالي والرجاء عدم اللف والدوران كالعادة. في المعاهدة الأردنية الإسرائيلية اين النص الذي يلزم إسرائيل على عودة اللاجئين الفلسطينيين الى ديارهم؟الموضوع بهذه البساطة. إسرائيل القت بمشكلتها الديمغرافية على الأردن والمفاوض الأردني مقابل هبات مالية أمريكية وقع على أتفاقية لاتلزم إسرائيل بعودة اللاجئين. الترجمة العملية لهذه الإتفاقية الخرقاء (إن لم تكن مؤامرة من الداخل) هو التوطين الأبدي للاجئيين في الأردن. وهو ما يسمى بمشروع الوطن البديل. ما معنى “إتفاقية سلام” لاتلغي آثار الحرب ؟ فيا فهمان زمانك اية سلاح سياسي مازال الأردني يملكه اما إسرائيل. نحن في حالة سلام دافئ (عكس مصر) مع الدولية العبرية وبيننا وبينهم إتفاقية لاتلزم إسرائيل برجوع حتى 10 لاجئيين. مالذي بقي في جعبتك يا عبقري لكي تضغط به على إسرائيل غير الكلا م والمزاودات والعطعطة والشعارات الفارغة؟ وبلاش نتكلم عن المستوطنات الصهيوينة التي وافقنا على وجودها على أرض الأردن الطاهر ل 99 سنة. تصور 99 سنة. وهي ذقني إن خرجوا منها.

كلامك في منو يا باتر، بس برضو ما بصير ننسى إنو في معظم الأحيان سياسات “الدوله” الخارجيه والداخليه تخدم فئه محدوده من الشعب وفي غياب أي نوع من المساءله والشفافيه لا يحق لأحد لوم الناس على ما يحسون به من وجود فساد و ما يسميه البعض بالخيانه. كمان ما تنسى تهميش دور الشعب في تحديد مسار الدوله من خلال ما يسمى بمجلس النواب إلي تم بناءه على أساس قانون إنتخاب أقل ما يمكن وصفه بالعنصري المكرس للانقسامات داخل المجتمع. يكفيك فقط النظر إلى “آلية” تشكيل الحكومات لتصاب بمغص وإسهال..

And for those who can’t find the Jordan Israel peace treaty, this is the text that pertains to the refugee.

START:

Recognizing the massive human problems caused to both Parties by the conflict in the Middle East, as well as the contribution made by them towards the alleviation of human suffering, the parties will seek to further alleviate those problems arising on a bilateral level.

1. Recognizing that the above human problems caused by the conflict in the Middle East cannot be fully resolved on the bilateral level, the Parties will seek to resolve them in appropriate forums, in accordance with international law, including the following:

1. In the case of displaced persons, in a quadripartite committee together with Egypt and the Palestinians;
2. In the case of refugees,
(i) In the framework of the Multilateral Working Group on Refugees;
(ii) In negotiations, in a framework to be agreed, bilateral or otherwise, in conjunction with and at the same time as the permanent status negotiations pertaining to the Territories referred to in Article 3 of this Treaty;

3. Through the implementation of agreed United Nations programs and other agreed international economic programs concerning refugees and displaced persons, including assistance to their settlement.

END TEXT

Now, if you are a seasoned and patriotic (an important quality) Jordanian negotiator, supposedly, and you are fully aware of the conspiracy against Jordan and all the Israeli schemes to turn it into an overflow cup for Israel’s demographic problem, you would arguably spend most of your time trying to hammer out a peace agreement that protects Jordan from this conspiracy.

The above text about the refugees is article 8, one of about 30 articles in the agreement. It’s not given any special significance or weight. And has no binding words and not one sentence that protects Jordan or the Palestinian refugees from the danger of the Jordanian “option.” But above all, there is not one sentence that holds Israel legally and morally responsible. Just wishy-washy text that has no substance. the net effect is the termination of the right of return for millions of Palestinians in Jordan. I want you to focus on the first sentence: “Recognizing the massive human problems caused to both Parties”…Our negotiators signed on a sentence that equates the suffering of Israelis with what happened to millions of ethnically cleansed Palestinians. Then our negotiators equated Jordan’s solidarity with the refugees to what Israeli did to them by saying “as well as the contribution made by [Jordan and Israel] towards the alleviation of human suffering.” Can you believe this?

And this is my friends how the right of return was effectively lost and the Jordanian option became the default option. It was an error of omission and commission. So the question is: how in the world did we sign something that’s so blatantly detrimental to Jordan’s national security and so catastrophic to Palestinian human rights? Fact is, no one forced Jordanian negotiators to sign this. Knowing of the conspiracy to turn Jordan into a permanent settlement for refugees, shouldn’t they have insisted on a statement such as:

“To signal the end of hostilities between Jordan and Israel, and to return the situation to the status quo ante before the 1948 and 1967 wars, and consistent with international laws and Israel’s legal and moral obligations, Israel shall not block the return of refugees who took shelter on Jordanian soil.”

Correct me if I am wrong, but if I am a patriotic Jordanian, wouldn’t I insist on something like this before I sign a supposed peace treaty with the country, israel, that created the refugee crisis in Jordan to start with? How in the world can some official Jordanian spokespersons claim that the Israeli Jordanian treaty protects Jordan from becoming a permanent Palestinian settlement when this agreement does the opposite by not committing Israel to allowing the return of any refugees? IMHO, this calls for a court martial.

Let me respond in English this time. I am not fond of the negotiation process and apart from the refugee issue I also believe that a lot has been lost in the water portfolio as well. Regarding the Palestinian refugees (Jordanian citizens) status during the negotiation, it was very clear that the PLO was more keen on taking decisions than Jordan and any involvement of the “right to return” in the Jordanian negotiation process was not welcomed by both Israel and the PLO. What Jordan focused on, whether right or wrong was the need to prevent forceful movements of people between Israel and Jordan (transfer option). A paragraph in article 2, under the heading “general principles,” states that “involuntary movement of persons in such a way as to adversely prejudice the security of either Party should not be permitted”. This is what Jordan has to use now against the charming new coalition forming the Israeli cabinet.
I agree to a large extent that Jordan did not focus on the “right to return” principles in the negotiations, but still the peace process and for the first time legalised borders between Israel and Jordan which has not been done before.

صباح الخير للجميع.
سعيد في هذا الاهتمام بشأن عام يخصنا جميعا.
صديقي مهند، صحيح ان هذا المعهد كان “تابعا” للجمهوريين لكن اطروحات الدراسة من حيث موضوعة “الامن اولا” وحماية اسرائيل هو شيء يشترك به الحزبان . اضافة الى ان الدراسة تتناول ما يجري على الارض عمليا منذ سنوات ولا اعتقد ان ادارة اوباما سوف تقوم بتغيره. قد يكون لها رأي في طريقة المعالجة والاخذ ببعض التوصيات او رفضها لكنها سوف تبقي على موضوعة ترسيخ الامن في الضفة.
ملاحظة.
الدراسة نفسها توصي برفض موضوعة الخيار الاردني كما هو واضح.
اشكركم

Batir, again and again, you proved to be the regime’s man on the Jordanian blogosphere.

I can’t believe you are trying to defend the regime by blaming it on the PLO. I thought we had a civil war to protect the Jordanian regime’s sovereignty over its territory and security decisions. Now you are telling me the Jordanian regime and Jordan, which is the unwilling host to millions of refugees, has no say over the future expelled millions who are living on Jordanian soil? What sort of an impotent regime do we have protecting Jordan?

Even a Lebanon (at least the Resistance Block) is smart enough to know not to sign a peace treaty with Israel that abandons the refugees on Lebanon’s soil permanently. The Lebanese have political leverage called resistance, to protect its future and its stability from Zionist designs. And we have seen the price of this instability many times in the past in Jordan and Lebanon.

What does the Jordan regime have in its bag of tricks after signing and normalizing with Israel without demanding a return to status quo ante? What sort of peace agreement did Jordanian regime sign that allows Israel to solve its internal racial “problems” by creating a serious long term instability for its peace partner in Jordan? We protect Jordan in the short term from Israel’s military wrath, but set the stage for civil wars in the long term. How brilliant. It seems someone has decided in Wadi Araba that its easier to kill Arabs than to kill Israelis.

Basically what happened in the Jordan Israeli treaty is that in return for recognizing the Jordanian regime, the regime has abrogated its sovereignty over Jordanian territory and accepted the de facto resettlement of millions of Palestinian refugees, knowing that this is incompatible with the wishes of most Jordanians and Palestinians. And I thought all the blood that was shed between brothers in the seventies was to help the Jordanian regime NOT do what it did in Wadi Araba. Mainly putting the interest of a foreign entity, israel, above the interest of Jordanians and Arabs.

To make matters worse, the Jordanian regime refuses to transition to a truly representative democracy for fear of the same refugees they have abandoned at the negotiations table. Is this dumb or treasonous?

So millions of refugees are now stuck in Jordan with marginal political and human rights, setting in motion the stage for future internal confrontations. This is the same regime that stood silent or even encouraged opportunistic fascists Jordanians like Nahid Hattar to mobilize public opinion against the refugees, when both Nahid Hattar and the regime know that the political stalemate in Jordan is of the regime’s own making. Can anyone be any more cynical than Hattar or the regime?

This is the same cynical regime that keeps telling us they will fight against the Jordan “option” all the while they privately and even publicly, as in Wadi Araba agreement, promote the Jordanian option, not for any good reason other than going along with American dictates in return for American cash and to play the divide and conquer game essential for its survival. And there are plenty of opportunistic Palestinians and Jordanians who have helped make this design a stellar success.

This is Sale7 Al-Klaab’s sophisticated reply to the Jordan “option.” After you remove his gangster threats and rade7, all you have is 3ao 3ao 3ao 3ao 3ao. Wasn’t Sale7 Al-Klaab one of the architects of the Refugee Resettlement Treaty (Wadi Araba)

http://www.alrai.com/pages.php?opinion_id=10117

Tab Uskoot ,job well done, some people want to convince us that the color of the skies is green,it is all obvious and known facts waht the Hashemites and their Jordanian and palestinian cronies are working hand in hand together to strip both Jordanian and palestinian of their natural and undeniable rights وقد سقط القناع

Al-Qallab proves that ass kissing will take you as high as you wish in a system that values ass kissing and little else. So…

ATTENTION!
CLEAR THROAT!
PURSE LIPS!
XO XO XO XO!
CLEAN LIPS WITH TOILET PAPER!
Repeat as required.

Congratulations new recruits. You are now official patriots in the Arab Party of Moderates, LLC -officially registered with the US Department of Commerce.

Cash payments will be issued upon submission of monthly progress report in support of West’s two strategic objectives in Middle East: 1) protecting and integrating Israel; 2) ensuring unimpeded flow of Oil.

Extra curricular activities such as peace, human rights, and democracy are highly encouraged so long as they are in support of two strategic objectives.

ARTICLE 6

WATER

With the view to achieving a comprehensive and lasting settlement of all the water problems between them:

The Parties agree mutually to recognise the rightful allocations of both of them in Jordan River and Yarmouk River waters and Araba/Arava ground water in accordance with the agreed acceptable principles, quantities and quality as set out in Annex II , which shall be fully respected and complied with.
The Parties, recognising the necessity to find a practical, just and agreed solution to their water problems and with the view that the subject of water can form the basis for the advancement of co- operation between them, jointly undertake to ensure that the management and development of their water resources do not, in any way, harm the water resources of the other Party.
The Parties recognise that their water resources are not sufficient to meet their needs. More water should be supplied for their use through various methods, including projects of regional and international co-operation.
In light of paragraph 3 of this Article, with the understanding that co-operation in water-related subjects would be to the benefit of both Parties, and will help alleviate their water shortages, and that water issues along their entire boundary must be dealt with in their totality, including the possibility of trans-boundary water transfers, the Parties agree to search for ways to alleviate water shortage and to co- operate in the following fields:
development of existing and new water resources, increasing the water availability including co- operation on a regional basis as appropriate, and minimising wastage of water resources through the chain of their uses;
prevention of contamination of water resources;
mutual assistance in the alleviation of water shortages;
transfer of information and joint research and development in water-related subjects, and review of the potentials for enhancement of water resources development and use.
The implementation of both Parties’ undertakings under this Article is detailed in Annex II.

Edoward, abo tamim so intelegent man and smart, god bless him and be with him also