Closing of Books@Cafe

By Hani Dweik on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Dear Madian,

I was shocked to hear the news! Not just shocked, but rather disappointed. I decided to move back to Jordan last year, and I was thinking that Jordan has progressed positively, but these kinds of actions prove the contrary, and as you said Madian, we love Jordan; we don’t want to leave and go somewhere else! We want to contribute in making Jordan a better place, coz for the last few years; Jordan has shown signs of becoming a shiny beacon in the region in terms of democracy and progress. So we don’t want to see this “Beacon” fades away. We want Jordan to be a symbol of tolerance and an example of a modern society that is not afraid of differences, and who is willing to accept and absorb others no matter what background they are coming from! Let’s work together hand in hand to build this country and truly make it a better place.

By m-a on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

those hypocrites would do anything in the name of religion and wants to force it on everyone because they think they have values, last time i checked we were considered to be a free country on the other hand ya u should bribe them cause our system will never protect your rights or any of our rights

By Tareq Labanieh on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Don’t worry Madian, be strong and face them, keep fighting and your lovely place will back to us again

By Michel on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

well, i would like to say a couple of things:

- first of all, books@cafe is clean and serves clean food; that’s one thing for sure.. otherwise people wouldn’t have frequently visited the place and ordered all types of food all day long! who’s better than a customer to judge a restaurant’s food’s quality and hygene ?!

- Alcohol is served in several hundreds of restaurants/cafes/bars/nightclubs in jordan (amman specificaly) all year long.. and in ramadan month, it has always been known that only several “Touristic” places were totally “liscenced” to serve alcohol and they’ve been doing so for the last few years! so why not now??

- If ramadan is “the” month of being religious, why are these people suddenly turning into lying hypocrats ! why now ??

- If the “religous” values of a group are to controll the whole community’s lifestyle; then why don’t they stop “prostitution” instead of stopping “alcohol” !! why ??

madian, we’re really sad to see this happening, but we will stand by you and our place untill this is resolved..

By David Deir on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

انا راح اكتب بالعربي عشان يفهمو.
في نقطة مهمة بدي احكيها: ان اللي بدو يصوم ما يحمل الله جميله انو هو صايم. انا شخص حر, و الدستور بحكي اني كمواطن لو شو ما كان ديني او اصلي , و لو من وين ما كنت , احنا متساويين, زي ما انت بدك تصوم , انا بدي اسهر ,, و الصيام مش جوع كلاب,,

يعني احنا مش عم بنقرب على حدا, انا بدي اسهر و انبسط , كل يوم, و بالمكان اللي برتاح فيه

By serene on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Please hold a press conference (jointly wiht all all other establishments affected by this blatant violation of law and human rights)
Be prepared wiht the laws and have every restaurant tell their version of the story — as in what happened to them.

Invite international media including bloomberg, CNN, AP, AFP and such..

I think this is the only way you can get what you want from this.. otherwise if each of you fights it alone it will not be as potent.

I would also highlight that at the end of it.. all of you are coming togehter to sue for loss of profit.. defemation etc.

Seriously; do this.. and see what happens; it will cost nothing but the tarnishing of their reputation and revealing the violations that occur in the name of religeon in the Arab world.

By Walid on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

This is a pinnacle in Satate Sponsored Stupidity!
Think about who forms these task forces and who is in them THe moslem Brotherhood and othe r fundementalists.
Also the whole purpose of Ramadan is to feel with the poos and not indulge in feasts and things like that, so if this is the case and ramdan is supposed to be about feeling with the poor and will-power how come they need laws that are draconian to enforce.
I am sure Madian has talked to his lawyers, but what stumps is this the blatant intimidation that they tried.
It is time for us to take back our rights, if they want we can even call it human rights, the right to gather and to drink what and when we feel like it.
This is what happens when you give a low-level sub-zero intellect government official a little bit of power, and the worst part of it are the lies.

By Walid on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Revised version:

This is the pinnacle in State Sponsored Stupidity!

Think about who forms these task forces and who is in them THe moslem Brotherhood and othe r fundementalists.

Also the whole purpose of Ramadan is to feel with the poor and not indulge in feasts and things like that, so if this is the case and ramdan is supposed to be about feeling with the poor and will-power how come they need laws that are draconian to enforce.

I am sure Madian has talked to his lawyers, but what stumps is this the blatant intimidation that they tried.

It is time for us to take back our rights, if they want we can even call it human rights, the right to gather and to drink what and when we feel like it.

This is what happens when you give a low-level sub-zero intellect government official a little bit of power, and the worst part of it are the lies.

By Salam on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

I am gobsmacked!!
This is so far beyond disgusting that my mind is drawing a blank.

By hussein on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

it’s better to have a shower after this horrible accident ;)

By Samer on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Dear all,
As Madian said we all need to do something about having Jordan as a place for every one. We all should ask and scream for our rights. If we stay negative the way we are, we will never get any thing. If any one has a good idea or some one we could talk to or write a list without hearting any one, please posted here.
It is time to change for a better place.

By mohanned on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Well, the regime and the system has to be seen as protectors of our “values” espcially at this time when the economic policies and the promised “reform” is actually bringing the country down to its knees. You see, if they keep you open, some will say look at the government protecting “immorality”, and those “some” are too many -they are loud too-, so in a way the government is doubling down on their argument and stripping them from their potential “supporting” argument.

The government will say: See, we care about your values, we even closed those immoral joints.. It is our little version of culture wars. The people are like: Hey we are OK with starving, we don’t care what our foreign or economic policies are, we don’t even want to know what they are, we don’t want reform, hell we will accept the racist elections law, but HEY Don’t touch our “values”, we don’t want people to drink or “not fast” even if we don’t see them.. It is our version of social authoritarianism, that will make sure you conform even when you are in your own private space.

Dude, you should have cameras in your place where you record all this stuff, and maybe add some microphones..

Good luck.

By Harout on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

As long as there is bios in religion in the people of the country , there will be a descrimination against peoples free will , weather its harmfull to others or not … still we know this is a political agenda , n some people are trying to change the progression in this countrey … But i guess we have to try our best to stop that in whatever means possible … its the way we can evolve into a better and stronger people … take care guys …

with all the luv xXx

By maleeka on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Sadly… I’m not shocked. Yes this is Jordan ! and yes Jordan remains a very backward petty place with petty governance and corruption.
people keep telling me ‘Its changing’ it will never change as long as such scumbags are the people that continue to run things enacting bloody laws placed in the 40’s!!
Its all just a facade, this ‘Jordan is changing’ . what a rediculous place we live in!

By Francois on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

You need to get a Majali or Fayez or Hassan to put their names as your business partners. Of course you just have to pay them a % in return for nothing but protection. We call that 5awa.

Once you do that, you can worships the devil and have orgies and sell cocaine and kills a few rude customers and no one will touch you in Jordan. I read it in a book called The Realworld Guide to Starting a Business in Jordan.

I decided not to do that and returned to Lebanon. At least there I will pay off my own folks and I will make them work for it.

Jordan is becoming a sad place.

By Razan on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Thanks Madian for posting this and confirming the rumers I heard. Outrageous! I agree with serene’s suggestion to hold a press conference and make a big fuss about this. Who governs Jordan really? if these people can ignore all laws and do as they please!

By Russ on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

I am a travel agent bringing thousands of tourists to the middle east every year from Europe and the USA. Books@Cafe is a “must” on our list of places to visit in Amman. It is an oasis of open mindedness - all kinds of people (from secular to religious) sitting together talking, discussing the issues of the day, eating good food, and enjoying the beautiful peaceful atmosphere that is Jordan. Should this establishment not reopen, it will be a loss for Jordan. We support Madian and his staff of wonderful people - and the wonderful people of Jordan that deserve a pearl like Books @ Cafe !
Some people say I’m a dreamer, but habibi…i KNOW i’m not the only one!

By AHMED on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

I’M FROM EGYPT BUT I VISITED JORDAN EVERY WHILE ,I LIKE THE BOOK@CAFE ALTHOUGH I DON’T DRINK BUT THE PLACE, ATMOSPHERE,VIEW …ETC.ALSO PPL THERE R VERY KEEN TO SERVE US.

By Abdullah on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

This is just sad
once you think that the country that you live in and actually love is getting a step ahead you just face those so called people that are trying to get us and our country a hundred steps back ..
We all know that Books is gonna reopen (we all have our fingers crossed and our hearts to the beautiful people who runs it) but the action to seriousely consider here is how to make sure that this doesn’t happen again to forbid them literaly from messing with the uniqueness that actually makes amman AMMAN .
I will have to agree with serene about the press conference thingie it’s a brilliant idea actually it will help us “nefda7hom” which is the word they are most afraid of .

By Daniel on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

I am shocked to see how things go in less fortunate countries than my own. Don’t know if it is of much support, but I will surely send a letter to the Jordan embassy here in The Netherlands asking them what is going on. I know this will not lead to reopening the place, but I feel I shoud do something, and can’t think of many more things to do.

Best luck to all, and please do keep fighting for your rights!!

By Observateur on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Well, it’s sad, very sad.

But Books@Café should take advantage of this opportunity in order to kick out its insolent stupid waiters (disgusting attitude), hire better cooks (horrible food) and also find a new manager if the current one cannot proceed such reforms.

It’s sad that the best of Jordan is THAT bad.

xoxo

By Faris on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

This is very sad news Madian, I hope there’s a peaceful resolution to this situation, it seems some elements in the government like to flex their muscles every chance they get, and a clear indication of a lot of uneducated people behind this.

What about Christians? non-Muslims?
If they’re going to act like we want this to be a theocracy, a purely Muslim nation, let’s cut to the chase and do some ethnic cleansing already, I’ve already taken the initiative and ethnic-cleansed myself.

By YES on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Fasting is a choice!! and if one chooses to fast its for his own spiritual comfort. I know we are ruled by the “Islamic Law” and I have nothing but respect to all religions, but Non-Muslims should be respected of their choices too. Jordan would be a much more pleasant space if people felt they were given a choice rather than being forced, like every other thing we are forced to do. Plus this is a spiritual giving month, why OH WHY is it always the worst vibe and attitude that surrounds us, I could almost guarantee this is not what God had in mind.
Peace and Love.

By Bashar Alaeddin on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Dude that is just messed up! How come they didn’t do that to places like Dubliner’s or Living Room who are open during this month? Why are they messing with Books@? Honeslty as much as im speechless to hearing about this and reading it here, I’m also sadly not surprised.
I guess you can either stay quiet and re-open after Ramadan, or get this news out to CNN and those like Serene mentioned or the usual 3rd option getting a wasta.. whatever u choose, we wish you the best Madian!

By Bashar Alaeddin on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

but i secrelty hope you take this matter to the mainstream media and make a commotion about it! :)

By Fade to Black on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

i’m not proud of all those who break their fast in public.. in other words: “ashamed” .. i agree with your freedom of worship, but u can eat drink s*** and make love at home specially during this month, this leads to the fact that fasting is not “starving” since u can do it somewhere else!

Editor’s Note: Comment was edited for vulgar language. We encourage comments that add to the discussion at hand. Comments containing hate speech, obscenity, and personal attacks will not be approved.

By zeek on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

David Deir u need to relax and keep ur comments for u. this has NOTHING to do with religion. it has to do with respecting one another and acting accordingly. Your kind of comment is very bad as it promotes a split between Moslems and Christians, something which has NEVER EVER hapened in Jordan. So, please do not be the divider! Moslems in Jordan have been brought up to respect their fellow citizens and that is why you get to celbrate New Year, Christmas, Easter and other holidays. Most Moslems would participate in those celebrations. You owe all the Jordanians an apology as what you said is very stupid in the least! so to hell with books@cafe if its going to creat a divide between the jordanians.

By Amer on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

If your case and others got unified under one title, do you think a petition would work? It could go within the national reform strategy, and you could also make is as a tourism/economical/employment etc. issue..

Normally in these cases, you either go along with the system “in Jordan, that - unfortunately - means paying a bribe or waiting until the month is over”, or take it as an opportunity to involve the media and other tourism-related parties affected by such hypocrisy. Sadly enough, involving the global media could be a good option after all (as sometimes our legislation system gets “affective” when it’s under the western spotlight). If the media was used as a playing card to the whole issue, maybe the more “influential” figures could get your case (and others) under the national reform strategy. I’m just eager to see that day when a mini “renaissance” happens in Jordan, it’s seriously about time we got the Jordanian intellects on stage, they have to balance the more conservative “rather extremists” officials who twist the law and get away with it.

By suhad on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

BIG F*%@# DEAL!!
it’s just one month!! and it’s almost over!!!
show some respect people!
I find it funny that people here in the states respect the fact that I am fasting much more than my people in amman ever did.
I say to hell with the alcohol for this month.
deal with your alcoholism at home. and keep Books open because whether you like it or not some people have a much serious addiction to their pizza, now that can’t be solved at home.

Madian I love you so much, I think your one of the most creative people in Amman but common’… fight for alcohol? That will make jordan a better place????!!! plleeaahhHHse have you been reading the news papers?

find a more sober cause everyone. Gaza could use some help!!

By Sandra on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

when would such people stop using the yardstick of religion to enforce there disrespectful ideologies?

By Saraab on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

You are all missing the point. this is not about serving food or drinks in ramadan, this is far more serious and far more devastating to Jordanian society. if the government wants to ban serving foods and drinks in ramadan, all they have to do is to issue a decree and it become so. but for government inspectors to fabricate evidence DANG!!!! that’s so frighting. Jordan is turning into a nightmare. with all these selective and even fabricated corruption charges against Baltagi, Abu Ghuida, Reemawi, etc.

Then we hear of this. people who are entrusted to enforce law and order in Jordan are lie and deceive and cheat to enforce their own laws not the state’s law. why don’t they shut down Muashar’s Marriott. they serve food an drinks there. or is he too powerful to touch. is Jordan’s law just for some people and others are above it?

I think we are entering into a dark period. the state was the only neutral enforcer of the peace. now that seems to be no longer the case. it’s near total chaos.

Jordan is sick. it needs urgent help.

By Madian on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

suhad…i probably love you as well…however, from the comfort of freedom of thought and expression land..the good ol USA…and where human rights are somewhat more respected and addressed….has it crossed your mind that this is not only about alcohol? i employ 50 people…who will lose out for a month. what happens to the falafel guy downtown?…or the fruit juice stand…or the “ka3ak” trolley?
My waiters have families to feed….and I have my family as well. Corporations and other businesses go unharmed…but the food industry gets the hit.
This is not an issue more important than Gaza…but it is important. this is an issue for us..for tolerance for resoect of others. I respect you fasting…respect me for not.
thjis is not about splitting jordanians…or addressing religions…this is about your right and mine to BE…and to tolerate..and not to judge. this is an issue of a system…that needs to be rethought and developed.

siam maqbool…o kul 3am winti bkhair.

By Zeina L on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

This is not a fight for alcohol. This is fight for THE FREEDOM TO CHOSE YOUR OWN PATH. Come on people, ( LA IKRAH FIL DEEN )
This is why youngsters leave our city and feel obligated to make a living somewhere else. NOT BECAUSE OF THE ALCOHOL, Because we have no freedom to even chose the right to make our own mistakes.
Madian, I believe that you are a very creative and an extremely succesful man. Amman needs more people like you, maybe then it will become more livable.
Thanks and no offence to anyone, ofcourse.

By G&M on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Hello all,

seems like an interesting topic, muslims and their fasting… Books@Cafe closing down…. attitude, wasta, 5awa.. a million opinions mentioned.

thinking about all that.. i have to assume some are not fasting, others really love books for selling alcohol some people don’t like another’s attitude and who wouldn’t want a wasta…

I say, eat if you wanna, drink if you feel like.. a billion other places are serving.. if someone gives you an attitude give it back, and **** all wasta’s..

As for the employees why wouldn’t they get the base salary? don’t they have contracts? they’ll be missing out on the extras.. tips.

Why not do a couple of changes to place, make it a little more cozier.. it’s too wood and wall

Salam Mama

By Naser on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

pffffffff ..enough with the hypocrisy please !!! This committee thing might have good intentions ,but they’re carrying it the wrong way, and we all know how things go in Jordan .
at the same time ,I understand why someone would be bugged by the idea of serving alcohol during Ramadan ,but please refrain from lecturing and acting like you’re the sole protector of the community and like u make no mistakes ! enough with the crap.

By Anees on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Islamists in Jordan are palnting the terror of confronting them, you are not allowed to even discuss issues like loud sounds from mosques.. They are anti dialogue, they and only they know the truth.. They are they only people in Jordan opposing the police state. Between them things are divided and any other party can only waste time trying to change some detail.. Live by their rules, they have never and will never be logical, anything is subject to change, and when they here you think different, they will tell you to leave the country.. Maybe that is the best thing to do.. I would like to live, anywhere, where i don’t have to worry if i say what is in my mind.

By The Observer on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

OMG Median! I just head about this! This is so bad! Ofcourse you have to fight! We all support you. You should sue those bastards.

And yes the idea of having an alliance with other closed ventures is good. Go for it, and a press conference is not a bad idea either.

By Naser on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Well G&M i see that your attitude isn’t helping either :)))
One need to understand the nature of the society and cope with it still sticking to his ideals but without clashing with it every now and then ! I love books i hate to see it closing , i even blogged about it and said its my fav hangout in Amman !since i was 16 and get caught every time for the ID check :D. what I’m saying is Median ,do what you got to do, but be smart and you’re a smart person ,if you’re gonna make this public (more public) its gonna be for all or none ! make it be all !.

By Husam on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

While it’s not worth it to fight for alcohol since it won’t make Jordan a better place, the issue at hand is whether Jordan is a state of laws and regulations. Let’s assume that Books@Cafe behavior was offensive and socially wrong to the people of Jordan. As long as Books@Cafe didn’t violate any publicly known laws and got the permits from the ministry, the society’s fight should be against the ministry and the parliament, not Books@Cafe. It’s about time that we move to a more civilized approach to solving problems. I’m not defending Books@Cafe’s right to serve alcohol as much as supporting that there must be a transparent and clear approach to resolving issues rather than ‘El-baltajeh’ (i.e. unlawful force).
This problem highlights a bigger problem within the governmental body: Some officials think that they can and should take the law in their hands using whatever interpretation they like rather than having a legislative panel that determines ‘how’ the law is enforced and executed.
Madian, you have a long and painful fight ahead of you. Good luck. I don’t think you should expect your case to be solved but as long as you fight it you’re setting a precedence which will help the next guy have a more fruitful fight.

By Ms. Trauma on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

I must say the most compelling aspect of this confrontation is the forging and fabrication of evidence by government officials to shut down a cafe. If they can commit such an illegal and unethical act just it to get at a local cafe, they can do it for all sorts of other reasons such as framing an opposition figure or simply anyone who won’t pay up. They could be trying to harm books@cafe for the benefit of another business establishment for all we care. If they can fabricate evidence, they can pretty much do anything. I mean how low can you go?

By Al Karaki on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Ahhhmmm! for those who are fighting this cause as freedom of religion, do yourselves a favor. Don’t. No matter how you slice or dice it, you can’t win on such grounds.

No one stopped you from drinking at home. No one stopped you from going to your place of worship during ramadan. No one forced you to convert.

For that reason, drinking alcohol during Ramadan publicly or at Books@Cafe or Sheraton is not freedom of religion or worship. It’s a privilege that is granted by the government. Privileges are not rights.

And if you push it farther, it will come across as you trying to shove your foot down everybody else’s throat. Again, if the freedom to consume alcohol is what you care for, you are free to do it at home during ramadan. Wanting to pose while consuming alcohol during ramadan is not a right.

So next ramadan, stock up on your six packs and Rum and absolute vodkas. Drink to your hearts’ content from dusk till dawn. So long as you do it in the privacy of your own home, no one will come knocking on your door. It’s simply legal.

So let’s not turn act of insensitivity during a special month into some noble and courageous struggle for justice and religious freedoms. It ain’t.

By suhad on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

two things
1. I live in the midwest, so any talk of “the comfort of freedom of thought and expression land” does not apply specially at this time in history, at least not for a brown woman, with an accent and muslim weird name to go with it. trust me!

2. Respect sounds wonderful, and if this was the case then please allow me to remind you of what’s on the other side of this respect coin. YOU respecting them and their religious traditions that goes back to over 1400 years! You are free not to fast, even free to drink alcohol if you want to during the holy month–I’m assuming there any arrests–however you are not allowed to serve alcohol.

These bureaucrats got off their lazy asses, TWICE, after their official working hours.
It must have meant something to them.
I would even dare say that maybe if you had stopped serving alcohol the first time they paid you a visit we wouldn’t be having this discussion right now.
but that’s just me.

I hope things get better for you and books soon.
and I’m actually not fasting this year (pregnant) but thanks. :)

By suhad on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Anees,
Go ahead! no one is stopping you.
Do it!
and would you please tell us the name of that place “where you don’t have to worry if you say what is in your mind” once you find it.
I’m just curious.

Zeina,
seriously? is that why “youngsters” leave Jordan? freedom?
I thought it was for better job offers & better education that might grant them a better future. but again that’s just me.

By sultan of swing on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

How long does it take Jordanians to take a frocking stand against the forces of ignorance in the country, shaving the moderates asses back to the middle ages.

An attack on books@cafe as such, is an attack against liberal Jordanians, who have the brains, the means, the will, but not enough organization to change anything.

I second the suggestion regarding a press conference.

By COCO on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

To fight for a better Jordan means for you serving Alcohol during the Holy Month of Ramadan….What a pity and what a narrow and selfish view…..

By Aziz on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Reading the comments here tells how narrow are the readers of 7iber, most are from the so called “liberal” where freedom to them is freedom of alcohol, sex, homosexuality and maybe a bet or lots of drugs!

they only represent 2 or 3% of Jordan, maybe less. some are even extremist, where i was even shocked to read some commenter linking Islam to terrorism! while another guy said they should ban Athan.!

There is islamophobia going on the west at a certain level, so now it is here in Jordan!

In France they forbid hijab in schools, smeller measures are under discussion in Holland and other countries. all in the name of freedom! so it is ok to be gay, naked, have open sexual relationship, but it is not ok to follow islam!

USA has been progressive to a level with its domestic policies with Islam, in some US towns with Muslim majority Athan is public!

So I ask those who want to forbid Athan, why it is ok in Jordan and western countries to have the Church ringing their bills but not ok for live Athan!

Jordan is 95% Muslim, this is the land of Omar bin Elkhtab, Khaled bin Waled, Osama bin Zaid, Jafer Eltair, and many other companions may God bless them all, it has been a Muslim country for 1400 years and will always be.

It was a great job from the police to close books and others who serve food and alcohol during Ramadan, this is a holly month and should be respected. but i am against any type of fabrications even for a good cause.

Books is a nice place, and I am sure its kitchens are clean, but I wish if they did not serve alcohol and food during Ramadan, actually alcohol should be forbidden all year long, not bc of the Islamic ruling but bc it is not healthy too, remmber it was banned in USA in the 20s.

Tourist are not coming to Jordan to drink Alcohol bc they have it back home, they come here to see the country and its people and bc it is different.

So Median do not be greedy and respect Islam, this is a Muslim country and will always be.

And to those who say we should leave the country bc the ban alcohol, yes plz do go to some western country and ask for asylum, and if they ask you why, tell them bc i am prosecuted in Jordan: i can not drink alcohol and eat during the day in the month of Ramadan!” that is a good cause to fight for! lol

God bless Jordan

By Mohammed Raei on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

This is so annoying. The government allows 5 star hotels to serve alcohol during Ramadan, no one come barging in.

This country has no future, at least for the foreseeable future.

By Samer Kurdi on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Madian,
This is Samer from Seattle (of Samer and Amanda fame). I am shocked and saddened to read this, but the one heartening thing is that… you are going to win this one. Think of it as an opportunity rather than a mere nuisance.

It seems that you (a) have been playing by the rules, and (b) know the rules better than the authorities barging into your place. Once you put this behind you it will be evidence that Jordan is indeed moving forward, despite hiccups and occaisional regressions.

By Samer Kurdi on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

@ COCO

Progress for Jordan and everywhere else means that if you play the rules you can get ahead and you can be free of the harassment of those who think they have a monopoly on the truth.

It has zero to do with alcohol or religion.

By hala 3ammy on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Whats next? Gay rights? or maybe the right for smoking pot in public?

By Onzlo on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

If you have all the required licences and they just made an arbitrary decision to close you down then you should seriously consider suing them for losses. Maybe you should look into a group lawsuit with some of the other 60 places that got shut.

By Mohammed Riad Dalabih on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

It does not surprise me at all. This country has been going backwards for quite some time. Petra a world wonder, eh? what a shame.

By farangi on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

It was mentioned in an update to the post that the ministry has issued a list of 60 places that have been closed — does anyone know if this list is available online? (eng or arabic) i’m not in amman right now and would be very interested to know all the places that have been affected by this.

By Tololy on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Yup. A friend of mine was over at Books when they closed it down, and we went there this morning to find it’s still closed, and Madian explained the situation.

It’s odd really, because we went to another place and got served. So I’m just wondering, why the picky-choosiness? That’s for one. For two, people who don’t want to fast won’t fast anyway, and shutting places down will only enrage them more and will make those who do fast look pretty fragile. Is fasting supposed to be so complicated? I mean, will seeing someone drinking water in Ramadan make people want to break off their fast? If so, then maybe they ought to. Three, if the license is valid and completely legal, why was the place shut down to start with? Which official is trying to save face?

Related: http://www.tololy.com/2008/09/01/%D8%A5%D8%B0%D8%A7-%D8%A8%D9%84%D9%8A%D8%AA%D9%85-%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%AA%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%A7/

By Jessy on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

I worked at book@ for a small period and im appalled that things like this could happen to Madian.
I can only say that my heart is with you. [truly pissed at this moment].

On the other hand, Suhad please cut the cr*p. I live in Texas[even worse than the midwest] and I’ve seen Muslims with your attitude and may i say what you feel inside truly reflects on those who try to have a relationship with you…. Get rid of your ISLAMIC Megalomaniac attitude and [TRULY] accept others the way they are…. then… and only then…. they’ll feel comfortable talking to you and accepting your CHOICES. YOU really wanna help Palestine…stop your hypocracy and move your ass back to gaza, but no you chose “America”…. as they say … AL ISLA7 YABDA2 BIL NAFS.

im sick of extremists and their actions. Im sure their stinking breathe in Ramadan is coming from their unholy acts. I assure you that god is sick to his stomach from all those who try to use his name in vein… Who are you to Judge what god wants…. we’re in the same basket you moron and when the day comes, im pretty sure God will punish you even more for assuming his powers without consent.

Peace

By Abdullah on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Suhad,

You’re taking peoples’ openions here and turning them your way!! The freedom they’re talking about is not leaving to the states to wear their mini skirts in public. They’re just expressing their openions wich is something that Jordanians did not know for a long time now. Show them some support and respect your fellows here for what they want.
Gaza is an issue and Democracy is a whole other issue.
Both extremely important and needs to be handled. EACH IN IT’S OWN TIME.
Cheers :)

By jas on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

I just came back from a trip to Syria during Ramadan …. walking around the old city was a treat even in the sweltering heat, but turning a corner I stumbled across a cafe, open and serving. So I sat down and ordered a coffee feeling a little strange, as it was the last thing I had expected during ramadan, particularly as in Jordan everything closes. And so the french fries and grilled chicken sizzled past me along with the argileh, the beer, the coffee and litres of cold water. But what this little episode showed was tolerance. I then went to visit a well established furniture shop and the owner promptly offered me a glass of delicious mint tea … “but it’s ramadan, and I’m sure you are fasting,” I protested, “yes indeed he said, but who am I to impose my religious beliefs on you, and why should it bother me … I fast for my own spiritual gratification” ….

This is the essence of ramadan: tolerance, respect for others, compassion … pity I had to hear it from a Syrian …. and I thought Syria was the police state ….

By Hazem on Sep 18, 2008 | Reply

Suhad & Al Karaki ; excellent, balanced and rational argumentation . Support you 100% .

Would have loved to see this ” El Habbeh ” regarding much more important issues . Would have loved to see all those protectors of Freedom acting against corruption , Signing a petition against the ill-writteb freedom of press law . Gaza is far far far far important than all of us . Double standards is what we usually accuse the west with , but we wre the inventors of double standards .. when you are in any country , the basic thing to do is to respect their values and those values are forged by culture whether you subscribe to it or not ..Respect it and abide to it , and yes the culture comes from the 6 milion inhabitants of jordan not few tens of thousands living in Abdoun and similar.I am not religious , I am extreme liberal and my redline is when my liberty encrouches on the sacred beliefs of others .Dowhat ever you want in your private place . They tolerate me 11 months , I can tolerate them 1.More than a fair deal . Do not use the 50 families excuse by the way , It is starnge how a business man cannot plan for such incidnce, consider it a paid vacation , their annual paid vacation :) business owner an

By Jessy on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

In response to Aziz:

Again Muslims in America have mosques bigger than those in Jordan but the Muslims that i deal with will sit with those who eat and drink at lunch time without even complaining. They follow alshari3a without forcing it on their neighbor. THOSE ARE THE TRUE MUSLIMS.

AZIZ ASK YOURSELF THIS QUESTION: DO you respect the great lent of Christians? …. I GUESS NOT… do you see them complain when the smell of SHAWIRMA or pizza is filling the air …NO …. NO … and Hell NO…..THEN JUST BECAUSE 95% of the population is MUSLIM doesnt mean you should force your fast on the rest….. IN THE WEST THEY DONT FORCE YOU TO BE A VEGETARIAN WHEN THEY LENT…… At least be courteous enough and return the favor……

BY THE WAY MINORITIES ARE NOT FA**** AND W*****….. please dont talk about democracy when your true colors show hegemony and authoritarianism.

Editor’s Note: Comment was edited for vulgar language. We encourage comments that add to the discussion at hand. Comments containing hate speech, obscenity, and personal attacks will not be approved.

By Jessy on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

PS:

Hazem… if you consider yourself liberal then i guess you have to specify in what area. what your talking about fits the criteria of a DEEP SOUTH REPUBLICAN…. and believe me the term LIBERAL has nothing to do with what you said.

IF you dont believe me go and check US government books and party policy…. after that …if you still think you’re “EXTREMELY LIBERAL” then i guess your talk about double standards comes from a personal experience.

By suhad on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Oh Jessy Jessy, your funny but I honestly have nothing to say to you. what you wrote is really lame and immature, but I’m hoping it’s just because your [truly pissed at this moment].

Abdullah, gaza was not my main point, and i will not comment on that. Yet I am intrigued. So GAZA and democracy are two different issues, ha?

If i was you I would read some newspapers or ask a wiser person–if it requires too much brain power–about the connection between democracy and Gaza before I engage in any public intellectual conversations like this.

I guess this is when the conversation comes to an end for me.

By Jessy on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Suhad … i had a good argument and you answered with “lame and immature”!!!. I didnt cuss or attack your beliefs i gave a fairly descent argument that you impose your beliefs on others.. though with some dark wit i might add. Your response is a proof that you can only listen to yourself…. Cant blame you… that how they raise kids back there, first they program us then we operate till death with the same code…. I dont expect a reply but if we’re in a debate and your answers were “Lame and immature” then i guess we all know the results.

By Aziz on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

So Jessy u r the one who showed ur true skin: u r racist and full of hate to Islam and Muslims.

So Muslim has to put u as equal to God and take ur words not his to decide who is a Good Muslim! who goes to heaven to goes to hell! Lol

look u have the right to disbelieve in Islam, no body will force you to follow Islam, but u have no right to tell us who is a good Muslim and who is not!

As with regards to your Lent comment, there is no laws in the west regarding this, and the vast majority of people in the west do not do fast or even go to church! specially in Europe. So why would I not eat meat in public if I am in the west! when the majority of christens there do eat meat during lent!.

Change ur laws and when we see the majority of people there follow lent then this is another case. In Jordan the vast majority of Muslims fast during Ramadan.

and in the name of freedom u did not say anything regarding forbidding Hijab in France? While it is ok to be naked or half naked! Do not tell me Hijab is a religious symbol it is not.

In Utah Alcohol is forbidden all year long and that is great :),- even though there is a way to go around it-, so why it is ok for Utah to ban Alcohol while in Jordan it is not! This is the case in Utah bc the majority of people are Mormons in which their religion bans alcohol, and the federal government gives a certain level of autonomy to each state. That said for US states, to my knowledge Jordan is not a US state! lol

By s maani on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

That’s bad… It will get worse if no one stops them…

Plus it’s so illegal what they’re doing…

By Razan on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Its sad that some think this is a fight for alcohol. Or think the holiness of Ramadan or respect to people comes from taking away the freedom of others. If this isn’t oppression I don’t know what is.

This is pure legal fight. Someone has a right to do something, and then someone else because of their personal beliefs takes the law by their own screwed up hands.

Tolerance is a virtue, best practiced in this holy month as you keep saying it is.

That Syrian furniture store owner said it all in my opinion.

By Maha on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Thank God that finally such places are closed in Jordan!

It’s funny that for you people “human rights”, “Freedom” and “Democracy” are synonyms for DRINKING ALCOHOL, NOT FASTING, HOMOSEXUALITY and other digusting stuff!!

For those who don’t want to respect our relegion and live with our tradition in Jordan as a muslim country, I advise u to leave to another country!

By hightend on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

i find this article childish, the terms used in it are childish and are only conceived of a child! terms like barking are not only illegal but immature,
also i would like to add jordan the country that you love or dont i dont care and i doubt anybody does is an islamic established country, serving of alcohol anytime of the year is wrong, it should only be for tourists and with an id, if you drink outside in the uk dont forget your a tourist too. so take your alcoholic drinking policy with you outside jordan, not unless christians, they are free to do what they want indoors, and christians dont do so in the first place, i respect jordanian christians very much.
2nd of all, i hear books@cafe is a hang out place for gay people, i find this very disturbing, gays are against the whole concept of arabs & religion, i do respect it as a disease, but its not non curable, (wj3lna lkol da2en dowa2) so god says there is a cure for everything, and if your afraid of a needle or hospitals thats something you have to overcome my friend. i am happy to walk into a hotel lounge and find tourists relaxed and comfortable, it gives me a proud sensation of hospitably in the country i live in, but as you know tourists minimize drinking in this holy month, even though i cant fast during my medication but thats something else.
thank you for reading, and wish you the best.

By Tala on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

currently in Dubai, licensed restaurants normally serve food and alcohol after Iftar, the authorities didn’t take away their license to serve alcohol during the month and they didn’t get shut completely. food is served before Iftar at Hotels and through bakeries and delivery shops, you can’t drink or eat in public during day time.

the difference here is that clubs are closed in Ramadan and loud music and dancing is not allowed even in Hotels, restaurants and pubs play ambient background music, also they impose behavior control through regulations, they have 0.0% tolerance for driving under influence at any dose which translates to immediate jail if caught, but even when public partying is not allowed you can have your own private party, yesterday our neighbors invited friends over with their own music set and drinks.

shutting a place completely is illogical because food is an industry as well, and if the main reason is alcohol and the rest of accusations were fabricated as mentioned in the post and it applied to 60 places, they should have given them a notice before Ramadan started,its already two weeks past Ramadan, and 60 is not a deaf number to ignore regulations if they were not truly licensed to serve.

so the worst case here is that the place would resume its service past Iftar without alcohol but if I was in their place and my license says that I can open during Ramadan under certain classification, I should go all the way and claim my right.

By Jessy on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

AZIZ:

next time if you try to throw a jab make sure its a K.O. Rephrasing what i said doesnt help your case…..
i didnt force my lent on you…. meaning….god’s will only applies to me personally…. i have the RIGHT TO EXPRESS WHAT I BELIEVE GOD’s will but i UTTERLY have no right to apply it on you. what i said was an OPINION AND NOT an ACT…get your facts straight.

Again i argued your statements…. i know muslims who denies every single act that you believe is true and they are Sunni… DO you wanna persecute them as well. Are christians brothers or infidels? IF I WERE YOU I’d choose my words carefully Mr….. choose your party.

Next time, make sure that you’re not shooting blanks.

By Jessy on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Aziz:

Again you should get your facts straight…in France you’re not allow to wear a BIG CROSS, a KIPPAH or the HIJAB…… but all of you guys in the middle east made it as if its just an attack on the muslims……..STOP WATCHING ALJAZEERA AND GET LOCAL NEWS FROM THE SOURCE…

By Jessy on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

allowed* ….. and thats only in schools to prevent conflict and religious influence in a secular institution.

By The Observer on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

hazem, you have a very shallow definition of culture! People of Abdoun are entitled to their own culture as of people in Karak. We are no longer living in a small town with everyone being a copy of the other. We are living in a country with 6 million people. We have many sub communities and many sub cultures. What we ought to learn is to tolerate and live by each other rather than bullying each other.

By Fade to Black on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Jessy!
re to: “Im sure their stinking breathe in Ramadan is coming from their unholy acts” .. —> well in what sense are you ever respectful and for what reason should i or anyone else respect your opinions as you go further with your quick-tempered & idiotic responses?

re to:” I assure you that god is sick to his stomach from all those who try to use his name in vein… Who are you to Judge what god wants…. we’re in the same basket you moron and when the day comes, im pretty sure God will punish you even more for assuming his powers without consent.” –> so sure?? aren’t you the one who’s assuming his powers and judging what God wants by you being-so-sure that god is sick to his stomach? did you talk to him recently?

By Jessy on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

And if i may add….. the law covered madian but people who think like you went into his restaurant and IMPOSED GOD’s wrath on him with false accusations….IS THAT THE LAW YOU Want…. is that will of the God in the Koran?….
Dont talk about laws where they dont exist….
and you sir by accepting declaring their deeds as lawful, you share the blame…..

Im not supporting obscenity and drunken behavior in public in RAMADAN or any other month. but in Books@ case ….you cant see the booze or the food from outside….. thats just an atrocious claim with no bases whatsoever.

By Jessy on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Fade to black:

Did i put you on a stick and burned you alive no …..meaning i did not assume power …im expressing an opinion…..

OH I FORGOT ….. expressing an opinion IS assuming power for you guys … im sorry….

By wajih on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

I dare say I am one of the biggest fans of Books@Cafe. It’s a place that has defined my life since I was in high school, even though I’m not nearly as much of a regular there as other places.

However, I am very disappointed at the quality of the discourse above. I don’t want to go this way or that because my opinion is irrelevant. It’s just that I feel the majority of opinions stated are based on too many theoretical ideals that SIMPLY ARE NOT TRUE OR DO NOT EXIST.

- I hope Books@Cafe reopens ASAP so the people who enjoy it and the people who live from it can return to their normal lives.

- I am disgusted with the blatant corruption of those intent on closing Books@Cafe, but hardly surprised. This should be exposed.

- I wish the government would stop this ignorance, or at least enforce the “law” equally, but I know it won’t.

- However, maybe things went too far. There are full-on parties happening in Ramadan. I’ve seen cab drivers cussing people out and saying out loud how they would love to blow up some parties to “show them their God”. I’ve heard this stuff. Frankly, I’d rather have these places I love stay closed just for this one month, than have some nut-job do something crazy that hurts the people I love. That’s more important to me than some kind of perception that Jordanians live in a “free society”. You don’t. Get over it.

I once saw Rubin “Hurricane” Carter at a lecture. I missed most of it, but the one thing I took was this: “There is no FREEDOM; there is only FREE FROM.”

He discussed it further, but I hope you will take a moment to think about it.

Peace and Respect to everyone.

By Aziz on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Razan ur call for freedom is basically what many commenter’s here call for: as i said before: their freedom is in alcohol, sex, homosexuality and maybe a bet or lots of drugs!

Oppression to u when these things are banned. during Ramadan or else.
So I suggest you to take the fight to another level:
1- use social media: setup a facebook group name it: open Books, allow alcohol and day eating during Ramadan, Sex should be open and hola for homosexuality!
2- Demonstrate in front of Omar Ben Al-khatab -may God bless him- st. where books is located and make your demands clear. do not forget to raise the Gay flag! lol
3- lobby and ask to allow people to have open sexual relationship as they want and ask For gay rights! Propose a law to the parliament to allow Gay marriage.

Jessy: ur the one who needs to get your act together you labeled who is a good Muslim according to your wishes! As for France i told you Hijab is not a religious symbol like wearing a cross it is a religious practice for Muslim woman just like Salah.

and France has the right to force that since it is an extreme secular institution? but in Jordan in which 95% are Muslimes, we r not allowed to enforce banning alcohol in Ramadan.!

Fade to Black thanx u just showed how Jessy is full of contradictions and hate.

Jessy>>>”Im sure their stinking breathe in Ramadan is coming from their unholy acts” this is a direct insulate against all Muslims.

Jessy this shows even more the amount of hatred she has against Islam and Muslims.

Jessy once you say u r christen once you support secularism. Once you take the part of being God. so ur the one who needs to get her act together and chose your party!. U pick the things u wana answer. For example you did not answer Utah issue and when u answer things we get to know ur true skin even better.
Ur party is clearer Hate for Islam and Muslims. and u’ll chose any pretext whether it is Christianity, secularism, Judaism, Atheism, homosexuality ..etc. it does not matter to u what ideology u pick, as long as u attack islam.

this u . u r the extremist terrorist and full of hate but u call it open minded lol.

And I am sure you would love to see me and other Muslims burned on a stick! Or even all Muslims get nuked unless they follow what you want “which makes them a good muslims”
And for sure you do not have the guts to spell that out here.

Jessy Muslims are slaves to God because he created us and everything. not ur slaves u did not create us !

By Heba on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Regardless of all the arguments with or against closing books@, I’ve been going to that place for a very long time now and basically witnessed all the alterations in the decor, staff, met very interesting people from all backgrounds…etc. Probably it would’ve been best if it hadn’t served alcohol in Ramadan, but it had been and for three years now probably and no one objected so why now!

I fast and vehemently object to ppl eating/smoking in public during Ramadan, but ppl who go to closed places like books in that month and mostly foreigners aren’t doing so publicly and it wouldn’t affect me as a Muslim coz I simply won’t be going there during hours of fasting. It has a license otherwise I don’t think they would’ve been open for three years now. In my view, alcohol is highly endorsed by the govt as a lucrative industry and it would be an utter hypocrisy to ban all places from serving it in Ramdan that’s why they keep places with certain ratings, like books, operating in that month. Sad how religious people are all cheery about this news… Jordan is changing and will change for the better, and by change, I don’t mean absolute decadence like some here would think… I hope books reopens very soon

By Jessy on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Aziz:

Whats wrong in saying that their stinking breathe is actually represents their deeds…. didnt they forge and illegally accused Books@…. thats an attack on those who hurt Madian….
YOU ON THE OTHER HAND MADE IT A MUSLIM ISSUE AGAIN …..DO YOU SEE A PATTERN ……

By Jessy on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

you’re not so different from the medevil church freaks.

Apparently you need to drag your yourself to the present my dear……….

By Ibrahim on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

someone should shut their mouths up… and I think its the best chance for you now to do that … you have to take the advantage of that and make a big fuss about it …
by fighting them you could make a big change in Jordan …
Please don’t wait till Ramadan finishes.
I’m really so pissed off from what happened.
Its for sure not about alcohol its just these ppl loves to show that they have some power and they think that they are making Jordan a better country …
I saw them Today spinning around in Rainbow St. with thier ministry of tourism car … looking at all ppl sitting there with hate in their eyes …

I don’t know what to call it is it hate or they are jealous or what … but Its definitely not about religion or “min dafi3 diny” … they r so far from religion …

“jalsat 7ameema wa tabadol al qubal” what the hell!!!??? is there something like that in our law?? that’s so funny …

By the jordanian satellite on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Hey all… median I’m really sorry for your troubles and hope you work it out, i should be writing a paper on reductionism, but the thing is there’s a point the majority of you have failed to notice and only some have…. I haven’t left Amman too long ago so i should be current on how things work (I used to work with ALOT of government departments and agencies) and to be entirely honest to you nay sayers there is development subtle as it maybe it is there Rome wasn’t built in a day… and to those of you who’ve only lived in WEST AMMAN not JORDAN I’ll be blunt “you don’t want democracy” i wont elaborate… anyway… I was really disappointed by the fact that a jordanian businessman with a legal permit to conduct business “regardless of it’s nature” was shut down with no grounds whatsoever and further more accused with false charges, this is not the Jordan I know and love… so Midian my advice to you is to get in contact with the other establishments owners and work together to tackle this, not for alcohol, not for eating in Ramadan, but for a Jordan where rights can not be given and taken like mood swings.

By Jessy on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

And please including jenocide, poverty, and homosexuality in the argument. Amateur debater style doesnt help. and Utah followed a legal procedure to ban alchohol, some areas in texas dont allow alcohols too…… BRING YOUR PEOPLE AND ENACT A LAW BUT DONT SCREAM AT PEOPLE WITH PERMITS AND LEGAL PAPERS JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK THIS IS RIGHT……
Please stop you immature examples and focus on the case….IM ONLY TALKING ABOUT THE incident and you made it into a world wide discussion…. Are you in college?

By Jessy on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

include*

By Aziz on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

oh so u r playing Incessant now. Trying to hide your true skin.

everything u said condemn you as being anit-islam and full of hate, it is clear ur skin and others the so called “liberals” here. And as I said before what freedom is defined by u and them, you all spelled it our here clearly.

It is very well known that Muslims when they fast they have not so good breath bc they do not eat breakfast.

and you know that fact as u said” Im sure their stinking breathe in Ramadan” underline Ramadan.” is coming from their unholy acts”

So calling their breath is stinking is a direct insult to all Muslims and to the holy month of Ramadan which is an insult to Islam.

If it is ok to call the fasting Muslim breath stinking, then it is ok to call you a stinking un-virgin hoe who visit nightclubs to find a someone to f… u.

As for the legallity of this, they gave a warning to Median but he was stuborn, so he payed the price for being greedy. It is no harm for few days vacation. hopefully he and others will learn a lesson.

I end my comments here since it is useless with people like u.

By Naseem Tarawnah on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

EDITORS’ NOTE: We would like to note that while 7iber encourages and welcomes all forms of debate, however sensitive the topic may be, it DOES NOT sanction any conversation that is laden with disrespectful language. Please find a way to get your point across without attacking others or their beliefs. Also, please keep it clean: profanity does not strengthen one’s argument.

Thank you.

By sultan of swing on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

CO CO

No sh*t shirlock, do u hear sarcasm.

By Essa on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Wajih and the jordanian satellite:

I totally agree with you… there are no miracle cure for all diseases and i think western democracy is not for us.

i also hope that our discussions stay above the waist line, whatever the motives behind Jessy’s arguments, they dont explain the sexual remarks thrown at her.

Lets set an example for tolerance and be more self-reserved. We are still in ramadan, the least thing we can do is to refrain from foul discussions.

Ramadan kareem

By hehe on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

okay…… well well well!! you guys are all wondering Wat could me the reason for this attack by police??? well! Go to the cafe and you’ll certainely find out!!
Checkout the gay couples that you can obviously witness all around the place!! Many places serve alcohol…. but not many are considered ‘Gay Bars”

We live in a Muslim - oriented country….. with 95% of it’s population being Muslims, no matter if loyal or not…… This month has its rules which Everyone should abide by! Muslims never disrespect Christmas….. They never make fun of our beliefs, they never refuse to greet us on our own holy days! So how in the name of god do we allow ourselves, regardless of our religion, to disrespect the rules of this holy month of Ramadan?! The government is mostly the one to blame for allowing this very public use of alcohol in the city! (In other Arab countries, like UAE , alcohol is served in bars and hotels only! But NOT in a Coffee shop/Restaurant wannabe!) and the problem is that they realize this only in Ramadan and that’s when they get in action!

I strongly Support BANNING alcoholic Drinks in all Coffee shops…. and limiting alcohol serving in the city to certain areas!

By Samar Dudin on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

The importance of the issues Median raised is not the debate that needs to be addressed here. Any argument that takes Median’s case to a discussion level on Palestine, War, poverty or respect for religious practices …any such argument will disarm Median’s call for change .WE all know that the question here is why do our authorities act so brutally and inconsistently with what a place like books offers represents and chooses to be in a country that lives off tourism and supposedly was built on a “rooted ” diversity in cultures life styles and religious beliefs.

At the root of the unacceptable and unprofessional behavior on behalf of the group that requested books close down is a disrespect and intolerance to difference .The act was aggressive disrespectful and did not align with MOT and The restaurant owners association ’s previous permits .
At the heart of it all is a lack of understanding of pluralism; which does not mean to accept difference but to create systems that recognize that in the name of religion dogma ideology etc we can inflict great injustices and therefore any minority lifestyle culture etc must be accommodated with respect and protected against any abusive actions in the name of …..any entity!
Having said that I believe Median should take immediate legal action and address the policy makers and security heads. His argument is valid from civic regulatory viewpoint. I am sorry he had to experience the disrespectful attitudes of the individual professionals who in the name of love for Islam commit unacceptable actions.
Is this significant? Yes… for our community to evolve civically Median’s plea is deeply significant. Ramadan Kareem

By Tamer on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

It’s painfully obvious that the debate here misses mark. to permit or not to permit alcohol in Cafes in Jordan is the smaller issue. but for a government official to accuse you of breaking the law based on bogus evidence is STATE TERROR.

Yes, these are agents of the state who are trying to destroy the livelihood of law-abiding citizens and Arab businessmen.

But when the state falsifies evidence against you after failing to catch you in any illegal act, and when the state enforces the laws against you but not against their own, that’s when law and order breaks down and justice packs its bags and leaves Jordan along with other investments.

I tend to agree with those who say that Jordan is heading into an uncertain future. There are many recent stories of corrupt government that have begun to surface via emails from friends about businessmen in Jordan who are suffering from state corruption such as threats to shut business if they don’t pay protection money to inspectors who pay their bosses. This corrupt seems widespread in Jordanian government and is now looking more like organized crime but with outright government help.

but neither the local press nor local authorities are responding. 90% of these cases target Jordanians who are not backed by powerful clans or Iraqi businessmen and now Lebanese. It’s as if the thugs have turfs based on the origins of the victims.

It’s as of there is a systematic effort to squeeze certain groups in Jordan out of politics and the economy for the benefit of few powerful clans.

I moved from Iraq to Jordan about 15 years ago. Jordan was the promise land for many Arab business men. Not anymore. Most Iraqis I know are moving out to UAE, Syria, and Egypt (the irony) after getting fleeced and bullied by people who work for the state of Jordan.

By Razan on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Please digg

http://digg.com/world_news/Closing_of_Books_Cafe

to get this to as many people as we can.

By Observateur on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Funny how this thread turned into a debate between islamophobia and homophobia.
You guys need to chill.

For all the homophobes, you can move to Saudi Arabia and mingle with descendants of wahhabi compagnons.

For all the islamophobes, move to Texas and feed on sweet ice tea.

For all the fun people, come to Beirut to party with me this weekend! We’ve got enough booze, pimps and rock’n'roll!

Love

By Walid on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

And there we have it as usual instead of having a “mature” discourse it sinks down to the level of Religious intolerance, intolerance, swearing, name -calling etc. etc. etc.
The discussion ran off track, the whole point of this thing is that a business was closed down due to some lies, the serving of alcohol was permitted books had all the papers, this is a matter of business and law, not a moslem christian whatever.

As I said earlier State Sponsored Stupidity is dangerous.

People who don’t live in Jordan really shouldn’t start telling us who live here how to live, I am not saying they do not know about matters here,and things change so quickly, but remember vision becomes a bit hazy from a distance.

Its not so much the fear of Islam but the lovely special forms of intrepretation where everyone wants to force their own special version of it down everybody throat, that’s the type of thing I am against.

To those of you who think that homosexuality is a disease, I suggest you look at the recent classifications and definitions of it, because if after that you still think it is a disease you need to get you r heads checked and your mouths sewn up (Sorry got a bit carried away here, NOT!). Disgusting is term you use for bigots racists and carrion, not for the idea of 2 people whatever their sex is who love each other YES I SAID IT LOVE each other.

Instead of focusing on something that really isn’t anybody’s but the individuals business focus on something like:
DISEASE & FAMINE… THese are the things you should be pondering before you rush home to your banquets of Iftar (by the way do any of the people fasting actually give food to the poor before sitting down to eat themselves, I can tell you a very few do.).

Back to topic Books IS NOT A GAY place but a GAY FRIENDLY family place. Where families go and everyone can mix with no judgement. And to close it down when they have their papers in order is criminal and the people who did should be punished.

By Serene Serhan on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Maha,

Leave that little dark place that lives inside you exactly where it belongs inside… history has proven that people with your views learn to be tolerant and appreciate the differences in people the hard way.. i do not wish the hard way upon you.. but i do hope that one day you will rid yourself of the hate.. in the meantime, i think everyone here would respect you more if you relieve yourself of the right to speak.. as it is at this moment nothing but clutter.. we are trying to resolve a much larger issue.. something that is not riddled with prejudice and hate.. i am sure you do not know the place.. but obviously you do not belong here

By Serene Serhan on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

hala.. from your mouth to God’s ears.. fingers crossed!!.. although your sarcasm does not evade me.. but we are trying our best here

By Human on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

1. You should TOTALLY get Wastah and use Rashwa, get this issue solved, and THEN write an expose on how things REALLY work here!!

That is the true story, not what the government can do. Every government on this planet can create decrees and rules an regulations that will not go well with the public, but truthfully and honestly: how many can go against their own words when money or wasta is used??? Not that many.

2. I totally agree with many people here, go public, go worldwide, use the press, use the media, show the world how things are really done here.

let us see what more they can do after this becomes a very public issue.

By someone on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

To all those entrenched in opposing positions… Those who wrought upon us the joy of reading some of the most hateful, disrespectful, intolerant rubbish one can read in a comment thread; I SALUTE YA! Yet another proof that even moderated commenting systems doesn’t work. As the old Arabic proverb goes, a pot spills what’s in it.

Most posters here were off the mark, and by a mile. It’s not because the real motive for the closure was not instigated by cultural intolerance (Quite frankly I think it was. After all, The @ place was the focus of many many stories ever since its inception back in 1997. Some of it true… Most are not). The two most relevant issues here are: 1- legal (closing a place under a false pretext – the roaches claim, which is the most serious of all claims) and 2- political (was this episode a continuation of the summer long soap of “neo liberals vs. conservatives?). The first was stated by many posts. The latter, only few touched upon, albeit not very eloquently. If the closure was indeed part of that confrontation between the two main political fronts of the current Jordanian political divide, then the case of Book isn’t so special after all.

I am liberal, non-practicing Muslim. But I do understand (at least to a certain extent) the source of the disdain and resentment conservative religious people feel towards me and the lot who share my ideals. Few can argue the fact that the vast majority of liberals in Jordan are well off western Ammanites, while the opposite number is made of lower middle class all the way down. I hope I need not elaborate on this all too familiar theme.

By Dima Jweihan on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

The issue of discussion here is the contradicting instructions, the general and loose-ended wording used in the mandates which allow for abuse of power and the absence of once-and-for-all clear stand on how handling the issue of restaurants and Ramadan by our policy makers.
This story continues to emerge into the surface every year during Ramadan. Shall restaurants be closed? Shall alcohol be banned? And every year, there are instructions after others, some of them are distributed, some of them appear suddenly at the time, and the result is: such an issue of how restaurants operate in Ramadan becomes at the hands of some official employees who wish to see the rules applied according to THEIR ideologies and beliefs and personal relations! it is this issue that should be discussed, the issue of having clear and fixed instructions that do not change by the change of public officials or the members of the inspection committees.
The issue is not about fasting in Ramadan, or opening a restaurant in Ramadan, or serving food and alcohol in Ramadan, because all of these are forms of expressing personal freedoms! Books @ cafe and other restaurants in Jordan do not force people to break their fasting or drink alcohol during Ramadan, those who do not drink alcohol or fast in Ramadan can simply refuse to go there! The same should apply vice versa since Jordan does not have “Al-Amr bel Ma3rouf” committee, the system should not allow inspection committees to act as such!
Finally, such behavior by public employees, and the failure of having clear regulations that governs such issues, only contribute in harming the image of Jordan. for this reason, and this reason only, we should go beyond our different personal beliefs, and fight against the abuse of power, which could harm us, extend to harm our personal beliefs as well!

By Dima on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

“jalsat 7ameema wa tabadol al qubal.” gosh , this country is doomed anyway .. there is no better reason…

By doesn't Matter on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

PEOPLE, serving alcohol is a ***** PRIVILEGE not a RIGHT!

Know the difference. its a license much as a driving license, the ministry of transportation can revoke your license anytime because its a privilege to drive not a right!

yes you can fight legally on why and how they revoke a license, but not on basis of freedom of rights.

besides, as one commentator mentioned, other muslims tolerate such places for 11 months, respect them for 1 month, i think thats a bargain offer.

and like what other commentator mentioned, its not a big deal! the place’s service is *****, and their food is OKAY, i mean come on people, it’s not like a gourmet french cusine. cold thin pizzas and salads filled with cheap iceberg lettuce.

I respect madian because he was an engine for a change, (notice ‘was’) whether on the social level or business level. but he should be PROACTIVE, take this initiative as step to give his place a make over and service upgrade. not to whine and **** about freedom of alcohol rights.

how many nights kids under 21 left that place drunk and drove home drunk. trust me, if it was in a ‘western’ country, he would be fined millions for that let alone shut his place.

and sorry, books@cafe is not the only place in amman where tolerance exists. I mean just because u see alot of ‘tourists’ hanging around, with other cool-wanna bees, doesnt make a place a beacon for tolerance like one commentator said above.

….oh shit, the mosque next door is calling for Dohor Prayer, let me go turn off my music for few minutes. u know.. I RESPECT the call for prayer.

By Hazem on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

OBSERVATUER , i will rise above your words and take the higher moral ground regarding what shalow is , However what i love about your comment is how oxymoronic it is and how it only proves my point , if you are talking about tolerating and subculture , They are tolerating for 11 months , we can tolertae for one … Bonjournee

By Samia on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

SHUT UP GUYS! Those of you who decided to speak on behalf of Christians in Jordan, speak for yourselves. You are embarrassing us with your rudeness. This is not about tolerance and freedom of religion. This is about a few who want their lifestyles to trump all others. I am a Christan and in Ramadan I can drink alcohol at home or at my friends’ house. It’s not against the law. We have parties in Ramdan and we drink to our hearts’ content. We go to church every Sunday in Ramadan or in any other month without any restrictions. We hang the cross before, during, and after.

So please stop speaking on Christians’ behalf. All of you are Books@Cafe regulars and you are loyal customers and friends of the Jazeerahs. Great. Nothing wrong with that. But they way you are conducting this campaign makes us look like we want hedonism or bullying not tolerance.

You want to fight the Books@Cafe issue as a case of government corruption and selective enforcement of the law, I am with you. But DON’T F***NG TURN IT INTO A RELIGIOUS FREEDOM ISSUE. you are abusing the concept and you have no clue what it means.

Want to know what it means? Go to India where they are killing Christians for being Christians. Go to Philippines where they target-shoot Muslims in remote islands. We are so fortunate to have a country like Jordan. This part of the world is the homeland of Christianity and we have been here for hundreds of centuries because of the culture of co-existence.

By Hazem on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Jessy , I think your understanding of liberalism needs a re check , again I will rise above your peronal attack and ask you to go back and understand what liberalism is and for your own knowledge liberalism did n ot start from US, or did yo not know that ???.. once your actions encrouche on others , you need to stop and think…I have read some of your posts and it is really sad to see how you react and attack people , may be you are a hard core republican but yo do not know that yet , re examine your thoughts , be more rational . Good luck , I hope they keep it close all Ramadan and once upon will go there

By Harout on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

well im sure it would have been fine if they just told them not to surve or just provoked their licence … not shut the place up … this shows the “Forgivness” and “Respect” of these “Religious” people in their “Holy” month of ramadan …

By Hazem on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Harout , 100% RIGHT YOU ARE , THAT WOULD HAVE SOLVED The PROBLEM .

Observateur & Jessy , read teh below definitions , it might helpyou out to look at things from a different perspective

(5) Liberal Radicals are adherents of progressive modem ideas, which they try to realize without consideration for the existing order or for other people’s rights, ideas, and feelings. Such was the first Liberal political party, the Spanish Jacobinos in 1810. This is the Radicalism, which under the mask of liberty is now annihilating the rights of Catholics in France.

(6) The Liberal Democrats want to make the masses of the common people the deciding factor in public affairs. They rely especially on the middle classes, whose interests they pretend to have at heart.

By The Observer on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Hazem, you got my id and have the definition of tolerance wrong.

Tolerance means respect other choices of belief and practices as long as they dont interfere with your freedom.

I respect your belief of the sinful nature of alcohol, and I respect your practice of not drinking any, and I respect your holy month of Ramadan.

And I except in return for you

To respect my belief on the un-sinful nature of alcohol, to respect my practice of drinking it anytime of the year (as long as I dont get drunk in public) and respect my right drink and eat in public when I feel so any time of the year.

It isn’t about Christians in Jordan as some pointed out here. It is more about any other non-extremist or non-religious muslim. I know many muslims who choose not to fast and they are not tolerated for their choices, I know many are muslims or christians in name and identitfy themselves to be atheists or agnostics and don’t fast in the holy month of Ramadan. Those people should be tolerated and respected as well. I don’t see the same law applied when Christians fast. People can still eat chocklate, eat shawerma and drink milk in the streets while our christians brothers fast. They don’t consider it irrespectful to christianity! or to themselves! Hell it can’t be! Fasting is a personal choice one for himself, you dont force people not to eat in public because you are hungry! That is a violation of others freedom and imposing of your own beliefs which is wrong, even if you share your views with the majority of the citizens of this country. It is still wrong.

By for public knowledge on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Dear Madian,

can you please state the main differences between cafes and restaurants classifications? like whats the difference between 3 stars cafe and no stars cafe vs. num of licenses? can one have to same licenses hotel restaurants have?

Is it the law that all non-hotel restaurants and cafes stop their service during day time in Ramadan?

after what happened, are there any places left open in Amman that serve food and Alcohol or was the ban selective?

By Hazem on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Observateur , You are saying what I am saying bit let me put it in a different way . Youe belief , your actions, your ideas, etc.. are yours , you can advocate for all, but out of basic human decency , you try and respect the others and do what you want without insulting them, Alcohol served in a place like boos@Cafe is in Ramadan is insuling , even to many christians . One month of No alcohol versus 11 months of all what you can do .. Is that too much to ask fopr or we simply understand life as balck & White. Unless yo uare a radical Liberal and that is also a form of Fanaticisim .Just use logic

By doesn't Matter on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

The Observer,

I remind you again, that while you can legally drink alcohol in private or infront of your cool friends, you still DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to sell or serve alcohol. its a PRIVILEGE given to you by the governing authority.

it has nothing to do with being muslim or christian. It’s the law. even in the US, its a privilege given to the masses. there is no violation of ‘freedom’. so stop arguing as if you hold the flag of liberty to the jordanian masses.

BTW christians are a minority, their fasting is highly respected nevertheless. and they can STILL eat while they fast. their fasting is different. when you go to the west and you fast, do they respect the holy month of ramadan? oh wait… they are secular, i forgot.

and your premise of eating/drinking in public in ramadan doesn’t violate freedom, because we still eat in public during christian fasting, is faulty and invalid at its best. firstly, not related to this post’s topic and secondly, even if it was, alcohol is technically banned in islam throughout the year. so wasn’t it so respectful to christians that Jordan’s government ‘allowed’ serving alcohol for 11 months? I think it was. fair deal.

By PH on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

I know it sucks. Why not post something on HM the Queen’s YouTube channel for instance? It doesn’t solve the problem but it sheds some light on it.

By Issam on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Some people fast and some dont, poeple who fast does not have to go out to any place that serves food. they could stay home. the people who dont fast needs to go out and chill. and knowing books@cafe, its a place were a lot of tourists visit. We dont have decent places in Amman and the government or whoever is responsible should wake up to reality. WE ARE FREE TO FAST OR NOT!its ‘MY’ personal relationship with God NOT the governemnt or ANYONE!
to show how religious they are, they ‘LIED’ to close the place down… and they call themselves religious.

By Jennifer on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

I’m Jordanian-American and I have fond memories of spending time with my cousin at Books@Cafe. I found this cafe to be very special because it welcomed people from different backgrounds. Books@Cafe is a symbol of tolerance and acceptance in Jordan. I have faith that I will have a cup of coffee (or a beer) there again on my next visit to Jordan.

By Harout on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

well , sorry 2 say this but give me a break … i know at least 300 people in my circle who r muslims , n they dont even think of ramadan , they dont fast or pray or anything of that matter , some of them r even from KSA …
N another thing … i know looooooooots of muslim people who live on drinking , at least some of the people know there limits …
this “syam” thing is having more PUBLICITY than it should , cmon … ramadan nights , shows , offers … the only things that missing is ramadan belly dancers …
loooooool

By anon on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

To those who think this is about religion, at the official level in Jordan, it’s rarely about religion or righteousness, even when this is the articulated objectives. It’s almost always about $$$.

if Books@Cafe is shutdown, it means someone paid for this to happen or someone from their inner circle will jump in to replace it and reap the profits of weakened competition.

This is sort of like the counterfeit DVD shops downtone and how some are closed while others florish.

It’s so corrupt around here it’s hopeless. We even beat Syria and Egypt now.

I bet most of those thugs will hang the King’s photo and a flag inside their cars and blast the radio wheever Abudllat sings Jayshuna.

Some of the most corrupt people in Jordan are the ultra nationalist blowhards. And rightly so. Jordan is their cow and boy does it produce lots of milk and the smaller the circle, the more milk portions.

You know we have a serious problem when patriotism is directly related to the spread of corruption. That’s how the inner circle was conditioned.

It’s all about the loot.

By Serene Serhan on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Okay i think this is my last post because the conversation here has regressed..
I dont think this is about tolerance, or religion people.. this is about corruption and a total lack of respect for the laws; maybe even a total lack of respect for the concept of law that should not be changed every year to reflect a different mindset

Madian.. i really think the action plan should be as follows:

1- Forge an alliance with those who have been affected
2- Create a speaking platform (press conference) where you can address all issues - and again be well versed in the law - if you can have both a lawyer and a ministry rep on the same table
3- Invite those who have made the decision to participate - offering an objective viewpoint
4- Invite all media (international included)

I will write the release for you and create the full logistical plan for you if you need it.

:)

Love You Sunshine.. you really do make the world go round for me:)

By Karma Hijawi on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

love you books@cafe!

By Mohanned on Sep 19, 2008 | Reply

Madian,
Don’t escalate, and don’t follow serene’s advice. I say this because this issue will move from a confrontation with a governmental entity to a confrontation with the society. The Backlash can affect your bottom line and maybe bring worse-than-you-can-expect reprecussions. The fear is that with all the economic and political failures is that the government might want to find a scape goat to re-direct the anger at.

My two cents.

By The Observer on Sep 20, 2008 | Reply

Hazem, it is the observer, not observateur, that is another id.

People do choose to be offended. Any place serving alcohol in Ramadan shouldnt be insulting to anyone. It isn’t like people are forcing you to drink against your well. You have your own belief of the sinful nature of alcohol, and it is your own belief. You shouldnt be offended if others dont share it with you.

I had a Ramadan Iftar at my house with my friends today. We were 4 christians and 6 muslims. One of which was fasting. We had food and alcohol as well. No one was offended. We had a very beautiful evening. No one tried to impose his beliefs on the others. We all respected each other choices and we all are tolerant to each other beliefs.

Doesnt matter, you are right, selling or serving alcohol is a privilage, a privilage that was given by the government to those venues and was violated.

As for Christians, yes they are minorities in Jordan, but so what? Aren’t all Jordanians equal againts the law? Isnt that what our constitution state? If you are going to forbade non fasting people from eating in public in Ramadan, then you should apply the same rule for Christian fasting on other non fasting citizens. It is ridiculous, no? It is more insulting to prevent anyone from eating in public rather than seeing one doing so while you are fasting.

As for Alcohol, it isn’t just about Christians. It is also about muslims who choose to drink, and others who identify themselves to be atheists or agnostics or any other Jordanian citizen who doesn’t care if alcohol consumption is haram or not. Alcohol is banned in Islam yes, and I respect Muslims who choose not to drink alcohol, but it isn’t banned in the Jordanian law, is it?

But as you said, this is entirely off topic.

By Ali on Sep 20, 2008 | Reply

I personaly support Books@Cafe, and Median… stand firm, this issue will be resolved soon.

http://alidahmash.blogspot.com/2008/09/tolerance-in-tolerance-corruptionmaybe.html

By Ahmed on Sep 20, 2008 | Reply

Because drinking alcohol according to Sharia law is a violation, i’m sorry to say that gainig public sympathy for such a cause is out of the question!
The issue worth publicizing in local media would be the degree of authoritive power abuse by our security and government offices.
The problem is not human rights violations in the name of Religion, but the corrupt loose system that gives the law enforcer the capacity to enforce law as he/she percieves and the capacity to fabricate facts and persecute.
Lack of an active institution to safeguard us the citizens/residents from such abuse is a tragedy. Perhaps inspection is much more needed in government offices than the books@cafe kitchen.

By RubaF on Sep 20, 2008 | Reply

You re missing the whole point - its not about the alcohol…I dont think you re getting this at all

By Luma on Sep 20, 2008 | Reply

I’m going to repeat what sarab wrote for the Ignorant ppl making comments!Again, this is not about serving food and alcohol in ramadan, this about goverment officials fabricating evidance to serve their own need of forcing thier beliefs on everyone around them!
If they can do this to Madian in ramadan, they can fabricate evidance on any of you any other time! This is far more serious than just SERVING ALCOHOL!wake up ppl!
Books is officially licensed to serve food and alcohol, anyone who disapproves just stay away and respect others of other religions and muslims who choose not fast, just as they respect you in the streets.

By Bobby on Sep 20, 2008 | Reply

First of all im sorry for what happened,it’s shocking indeed finding out that Books@Cafe and y’all have been mistreated in such fashion!

I think it’s unethical and nowhere ne